Mormon Matters - (Dan Wotherspoon ARCHIVE)

This three-part episode consists of a recording of a live event held Sunday evening, March 24, 2019 in Salt Lake City. It is an interview of Mormon Matters' longtime host, Dan Wotherspoon, about his eight years helming this podcast, and to formally announce his stepping down from the show and alerting all who are interested about what's next in his life. Sponsored by Mormon Stories, Mormon Matters, and the Waters of Mormon Facebook group, John Dehlin interviewed Dan, and others asked questions and shared various thoughts about the show and Dan and his new plans. It was a wonderful evening, with about seventy in attendance, and many more who watched a livestream, and we hope you'll enjoy this recording of a celebration and closure to this era of the Mormon Matters podcast.

Parts 1 and 2 constitute the bulk of the interview, in which John asks Dan to share a bit about his life story and spiritual journey, various reflections on Mormon Matters, and about ways he holds various Mormon and Christian truth claims and ideas about God and the elements of a transformative life path in which we become more and more in alignment with God and/or the universe, and in that way, experience deep and abiding joy in our relationships and greater effectiveness within what we are being called to.

Part 3 features the announcements of Dan's new podcast and other projects, as well as interactions with several audience members. 

We hope you will enjoy this final trip with Dan as Mormon Matters host, and will continue to come to Mormon Matters for its 500+ episode back catalog, with their discussions of many and diverse aspects of Latter-day Saint life, thought, and events of note!

This three-part episode consists of a recording of a live event held Sunday evening, March 24, 2019 in Salt Lake City. It is an interview of Mormon Matters' longtime host, Dan Wotherspoon, about his eight years helming this podcast, and to formally announce his stepping down from the show and alerting all who are interested about what's next in his life. Sponsored by Mormon Stories, Mormon Matters, and the Waters of Mormon Facebook group, John Dehlin interviewed Dan, and others asked questions and shared various thoughts about the show and Dan and his new plans. It was a wonderful evening, with about seventy in attendance, and many more who watched a livestream, and we hope you'll enjoy this recording of a celebration and closure to this era of the Mormon Matters podcast.

Parts 1 and 2 constitute the bulk of the interview, in which John asks Dan to share a bit about his life story and spiritual journey, various reflections on Mormon Matters, and about ways he holds various Mormon and Christian truth claims and ideas about God and the elements of a transformative life path in which we become more and more in alignment with God and/or the universe, and in that way, experience deep and abiding joy in our relationships and effectiveness in what we are being called to.

Part 3 features the announcements of Dan's new podcast and other projects, as well as interactions with several audience members. 

We hope you will enjoy this final trip with Dan as Mormon Matters host, and will continue to come to Mormon Matters for its 500+ episode back catalog, with their discussions of many and diverse aspects of Latter-day Saint life, thought, and events of note!

This three-part episode consists of a recording of a live event held Sunday evening, March 24, 2019 in Salt Lake City. It is an interview of Mormon Matters' longtime host, Dan Wotherspoon, about his eight years helming this podcast, and to formally announce his stepping down from the show and alerting all who are interested about what's next in his life. Sponsored by Mormon Stories, Mormon Matters, and the Waters of Mormon Facebook group, John Dehlin interviewed Dan, and others asked questions and shared various thoughts about the show and Dan and his new plans. It was a wonderful evening, with about seventy in attendance, and many more who watched a livestream, and we hope you'll enjoy this recording of a celebration and closure to this era of the Mormon Matters podcast.

Parts 1 and 2 constitute the bulk of the interview, in which John asks Dan to share a bit about his life story and spiritual journey, various reflections on Mormon Matters, and about ways he holds various Mormon and Christian truth claims and ideas about God and the elements of a transformative life path in which we become more and more in alignment with God and/or the universe, and in that way, experience deep and abiding joy in our relationships and what we are being called to.

Part 3 features the announcements of Dan's new podcast and other projects, as well as interactions with several audience members. 

We hope you will enjoy this final trip with Dan as Mormon Matters host, and will continue to come to Mormon Matters for its 500+ episode back catalog, with their discussions of many and diverse aspects of Latter-day Saint life, thought, and events of note!

In the brilliant and fascinating new book, The Next Mormons: How Millennials Are Changing the LDS Church, Jana Riess, with collaboration from Benjamin Knoll shares results from a huge, representative, survey they designed and administered that compares Millennial Mormons with two other generations—Boomers/Silent Generation and Generation X in ten major areas. In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon focuses the conversation on three of these: beliefs (in God and various LDS claims and directives), practices (from church attendance, to prayer, scripture reading, and more), and how members of each generation decides what sources are most authoritative in their lives. The book also covers LDS missionary experiences, rites of passage such as baptism and other ordinances, as well as experiences with the Temple; Singleness within the church; gender-related topics; Mormonism and race; LGBT inclusion; and social and political views. Another chapter looks at Millennials who are former Mormons. 

We are excited to have Jana and Ben join us for a fascinating discussion of the chosen themes and a bit more. They are engaging, thoughtful, incredibly informed. Plus you can learn more about the book, including where you might purchase it, as well as the website that features additional materials, synopses, the survey itself, and regular updates.

This episode was conceived as a supplement to the previous one, the two-parter 537–538: Being "Good and Mad" within Mormonism,  featuring Kristine Haglund. It certainly serves well as that but ended up being more of a full episode than originally envisioned. In particular, the topic is the potent emotion of “outrage” and it’s very strong role in driving much of social media, that then fosters thinking and speaking habits that can cripple our ability to engage with others in ways that might truly be transformative and work for the good of the changes we want to see instantiated. 

Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon invited his friend and former colleague, John Hatch, to come on the show to read a short essay about outrage that he wrote about five years ago and presented at a Sunstone symposium session focused on moving beyond “black and white thinking.” He reads that piece here, and then the conversation that followed went into explorations that led to additional dives into other related ideas. It’s a terrific essay, accompanied by discussion of some of its themes that we hope you will also find interesting and worthwhile!

In this two-part episode, a conversation between Kristine Haglund and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, Kristine shares insights and distillations from various sources and her own thinking about "anger" and ways to understand and better utilize its energy, especially within Mormonism. In her presentation, she picks up the term, "Good and Mad" from Rebecca Traister's recent book, Good and Mad: The Revolutionary Power of Women's Anger, and applies it as an aspirational ideal within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—Ways we might learn to be both angry (and harness its power) and good (operate within acceptable discourse and behavioral standards). Whereas there is no setting in today's very top-down hierarchal structure in which anger can be well-received, regardless of our sex, we can, however, learn how to effectively channel our strong senses of "This is not right" or "No God I can ever believe in would countenance this sort of behavior (or teaching)" into forms that can lead to interpersonal as well as organizational changes.

This is a terrific listen containing many powerful insights. Part 1 offers a wide framing of the topic, and Part 2 introduces and discusses Kristine's ten different principles for helping us better comprehend our own and others' anger, and to then make sure its energies don't go to waste as easily as they often do in this day of social media and its unfortunate stock-in-trade: outrage, and then outrage about what's the proper amount of outrage, ad infinitum.

Kristine originally presented some of the ideas within this episode at the Utah Valley University Mormon Studies Conference, "Women of Mormondom," held March 7–8, 2019. Audio/video of the conference's sessions is forthcoming very soon.

In this two-part episode, a conversation between Kristine Haglund and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, Kristine shares insights and distillations from various sources and her own thinking about "anger" and ways to understand and better utilize its energy, especially within Mormonism. In her presentation, she picks up the term, "Good and Mad" from Rebecca Traister's recent book, Good and Mad: The Revolutionary Power of Women's Anger, and applies it as an aspirational ideal within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—Ways we might learn to be both angry (and harness its power) and good (operate within acceptable discourse and behavioral standards). Whereas there is no setting in today's very top-down hierarchal structure in which anger can be well-received, regardless of our sex, we can, however, learn how to effectively channel our strong senses of "This is not right" or "No God I can ever believe in would countenance this sort of behavior (or teaching)" into forms that can lead to interpersonal as well as organizational changes.

This is a terrific listen containing many powerful insights. Part 1 offers a wide framing of the topic, and Part 2 introduces and discusses Kristine's ten different principles for helping us better comprehend our own and others' anger, and to then make sure its energies don't go to waste as easily as they often do in this day of social media and its unfortunate stock-in-trade: outrage, and then outrage about what's the proper amount of outrage, ad infinitum.

Kristine originally presented some of the ideas within this episode at the Utah Valley University Mormon Studies Conference, "Women of Mormondom," held March 7–8, 2019. Audio/video of the conference's sessions is forthcoming very soon.

The classic theological puzzle known as the “problem of evil” arises when we assert the existence of an all-powerful God who is also perfectly loving, while also asserting the presence of genuine evil in the world. As David Hume puts the case: “Either God would remove evil out of this world, and cannot; or He can, and will not; or, He has not the power nor will; or, lastly He has both the power and will. If He has the will, and not the power, this shows weakness, which is contrary to the nature of God. If He has the power, and not the will it is malignity, and this is no less contrary to His nature. If He is neither able nor willing, He is both impotent and malignant, and consequently cannot be God. If he is both willing and able (which alone is consonant to the nature of God), whence comes evil, or why does he not prevent it?”

Very often, as in Hume’s framing above, the focus of efforts to approach the “problem” is on God. Can God? Should God? Is God? Why does/doesn't God? In a departure from this, in this episode the panelists place greater attention on those who are currently, or who have, suffered great evil, and how traditional approaches so often fail them. In many cases, one of the costs of great suffering, especially when it does not arise as a natural consequence of something we did, is the loss of faith in God altogether. More atheists are created by the fact of genuine, massive, and seemingly unfair distribution of great suffering than any other trigger. Clearly, in such cases, an “omni-everything” concept of God fails as a being or power that is able to comfort those who suffer.

In a new book, God Can’t: How to Believe in God and Love after Tragedy, Abuse, and Other Evils, Christian and open-relational theologian Thomas Jay Oord directly faces the effects on individual faith that arise from evil. Through his posing and discussing five theological claims about God's loving nature in relation to evil, many Christians, and we sense Latter-day Saints would as well, have at last found new hope and the kind of comfort and peace that only an explicit faith in God can bring.

Brittney Hartley and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon join Tom in discussing the ideas of his book, while contributing as they arise various places where Mormon thought is in close alignment with his theses. In the final section, they also discuss one large disconnect between Tom’s and wider Christianity’s view of God and that of Latter-day Saints: the question of whether God is embodied or not. It leads to a fascinating exchange, even as it primes the pump for many more explorations. We are grateful to Tom as an open-hearted, brilliant, and friendly conversation partner. Here’s to more episodes to come!

Please listen in! Share! And be mindful that we’d also love your comments and ideas to become part of the ongoing conversations at mormonmatters.org!

No term to date has been more associated with the leadership tenure of President Russell M. Nelson than “Covenant Path.” It’s become ubiquitous in his and many other church leader messages, and it now also rolls easily off the tongues in LDS stakes, wards, and other conversations. It’s an intriguing term, yet to date, it seems to Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and his friend and fellow close church watcher Mark Crego that it hasn’t been explored as widely and deeply as it might. Right now, in its current usage, comes across primarily a goal to be accomplished—"make and keep covenants, and if you stray, return to the covenant path"—with a promised reward at the end: eternal life (with all its inherent meanings when understood in full Latter-day Saint context). In that sort of presentation, walking the covenant path feels very “transactional.” Do this, receive that.

To Dan and Mark, however, the idea of both “covenant(s)” and “path(s)” are very rich concepts, and in this two-part episode they share what they consider to be larger and more ennobling visions of what this simple phrase might mean were we as Godwrestlers and faith journeyers to keep revisiting this term and allow its symbolism and sensibilities to grow along with us as we continue to walk our spiritual paths. Among other things, this episode covers: What are Mormonism’s seven primary covenants that make up the “covenant path”? What is their relationship to each of us individually and our relationship with God, however we define that term, but also (and perhaps even more importantly) as members of a religious or community? What roles do symbols and ritual markers of covenanting play in human lives, and can we allow our understanding of such things to become ever expanding and empowering? As LDS rhetoric about the covenant path is still in its infancy, how might each of us learn to understand it and teach of its richness with far more power than we currently do and see/hear from those around us?

Please listen in! We’d also love your comments and ideas to become part of the ongoing conversations at mormonmatters.org! Please share!

No term to date has been more associated with the leadership tenure of President Russell M. Nelson than “Covenant Path.” It’s become ubiquitous in his and many other church leader messages, and it now also rolls easily off the tongues in LDS stakes, wards, and other conversations. It’s an intriguing term, yet to date, it seems to Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and his friend and fellow close church watcher Mark Crego that it hasn’t been explored as widely and deeply as it might. Right now, in its current usage, comes across primarily a goal to be accomplished—"make and keep covenants, and if you stray, return to the covenant path"—with a promised reward at the end: eternal life (with all its inherent meanings when understood in full Latter-day Saint context). In that sort of presentation, walking the covenant path feels very “transactional.” Do this, receive that.

To Dan and Mark, however, the idea of both “covenant(s)” and “path(s)” are very rich concepts, and in this two-part episode they share what they consider to be larger and more ennobling visions of what this simple phrase might mean were we as Godwrestlers and faith journeyers to keep revisiting this term and allow its symbolism and sensibilities to grow along with us as we continue to walk our spiritual paths. Among other things, this episode covers: What are Mormonism’s seven primary covenants that make up the “covenant path”? What is their relationship to each of us individually and our relationship with God, however we define that term, but also (and perhaps even more importantly) as members of a religious or community? What roles do symbols and ritual markers of covenanting play in human lives, and can we allow our understanding of such things to become ever expanding and empowering? As LDS rhetoric about the covenant path is still in its infancy, how might each of us learn to understand it and teach of its richness with far more power than we currently do and see/hear from those around us?

Please listen in! We’d also love your comments and ideas to become part of the ongoing conversations at mormonmatters.org! Please share!

As they begin to experience shifts of faith, many Latter-day Saints and others within the Christian tradition come to think of Jesus Christ differently than what they did when they were younger, and for most who undergo these shifts, the transition from one understanding to another is fraught with a great deal of angst. It takes time to "unlearn" traditional stories and to formulate new ones based upon our own experiences and encounters with Jesus over and against what we had "received" from others. It's confusing. It feels transgressive as we come to gain new sensibilities from those we see in our communities. But, even with this wrestling and searching and the disorientation of the period in which we are changing, it is vital that we take it on. Jesus and his teachings really come alive when not seen primarily through institutional lenses that often emphasize actions and beliefs that are geared toward conveying how much we "need" them in order to be saved.

In this two-part episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon has brought together separate recordings he made with nine different friends over a ten-day period in which they shared their journeys and the fresh views they have gained, or are now moving toward, in response to the following question: "What do you believe is the "good news" of the gospel as taught by Jesus of Nazareth?" What they shared is wonderful! Some played with similar themes ("kingdom of God within us" or "losing one's life in order to find it") but each with their own unique emphases and flavoring unique to them. We think you will very much enjoy what you find here!

In Episode 532 (Part 1), you'll hear from Susan Hinckley, Barbara Roberts, Tom Roberts, Scott Turley, and JoDee Baird.

In Episode 533 (Part 2), those sharing are Thomas McConkie, Cynthia Winward, Matt Jones, Jana Spangler, and Dan Wotherspoon.

As they begin to experience shifts of faith, many Latter-day Saints and others within the Christian tradition come to think of Jesus Christ differently than what they did when they were younger, and for most who undergo these shifts, the transition from one understanding to another is fraught with a great deal of angst. It takes time to "unlearn" traditional stories and to formulate new ones based upon our own experiences and encounters with Jesus over and against what we had "received" from others. It's confusing. It feels transgressive as we come to gain new sensibilities from those we see in our communities. But, even with this wrestling and searching and the disorientation of the period in which we are changing, it is vital that we take it on. Jesus and his teachings really come alive when not seen primarily through institutional lenses that often emphasize actions and beliefs that are geared toward conveying how much we "need" them in order to be saved.

In this two-part episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon has brought together separate recordings he made with nine different friends over a ten-day period in which they shared their journeys and the fresh views they have gained, or are now moving toward, in response to the following question: "What do you believe is the "good news" of the gospel as taught by Jesus of Nazareth?" What they shared is wonderful! Some played with similar themes ("kingdom of God within us" or "losing one's life in order to find it") but each with their own unique emphases and flavoring unique to them. We think you will very much enjoy what you find here!

In Episode 532 (Part 1), you'll hear from Susan Hinckley, Barbara Roberts, Tom Roberts, Scott Turley, and JoDee Baird.

In Episode 533 (Part 2), those sharing are Thomas McConkie, Cynthia Winward, Matt Jones, Jana Spangler, and Dan Wotherspoon.

As Latter-day Saints begin to dig into the New Testament as part of this year's scripture study, a terrific new resource, a translation from the Greek with wonderful notes, has arrived on the scene. The New Testament: A Translation for Latter-day Saints (A Study Bible) by Thomas A. Wayment, published by the Religious Studies Center at BYU in cooperation with Deseret Book, can stimulate discussions among Latter-day Saints about the authorship and dating of each part of the New Testament, the context in which each was written, textual issues at play that lead some passages we are used to seeing in the King James Version to be dropped while opening up others to broader meanings than we typically speak about in church, and much more—all of it quite relevant in our own Christian lives and how we interact with Jesus's core messages and his calls for us to follow.

This episode is an interview with Thom Wayment about his new translation as well as the entire project of figuring out how best to present it in book form. Within the conversation, Thom and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon discuss a wide range of things, but most often with a focus on "what difference could this make in how we understand our own faith?" Who wrote the Gospels? Which of the Pauline epistles are not written by Paul? What aspects of Paul's writings and teachings influenced the Gospel writers who all created their texts after Paul had died? The Jesus of history is significantly different from the Christ of Paul, so what does teasing that apart open for us and how we approach Jesus's teachings and our own reading of the New Testament? In what ways are we asking certain texts, or even just particular verses, to do a lot of work for us (be foundational) in the LDS tradition that skew our understandings of the early Christian movement and developing church? In what ways does approaching our reading with more information about the texts' origins lead us, should we let them, to a more enlivened faith, a more energetic interaction with what it was about Jesus and his life and messaging that led so many people to give their lives (at times, literally, their own life) to spreading its influence?

There is a freshness to our Bible studies that this book can bring if we will truly dive into the scholarship presented along with a plain English translation (none of this "thee, thy, thou, thine" stuff, or archaic phrasings, folks!) that also includes a much clearer picture of the role of women in the early church. This is a book and study year that we hope will  be quite transformational.

This is a quick turnaround podcast episode both recorded and released on the day after LDS temples around the world implemented and offered to patrons a new version of the endowment ceremony, as well as changes to the scripts of both the sealing and women's initiatory ordinances. We do not go into great specific detail about the changes within the conversation presented here other than to reflect upon the greater equality now experienced between men and women within the rituals, as well as a offering a few references to other changes. What this episode DOES include, however, are wonderful reflections by three brilliant and powerful spiritual seekers—Jody England Hansen, Julie de Azevedo Hanks, and Mark Crego—about their experiences from either participating yesterday in the temple since the changes were implements and/or their having collected a great deal of reactions to them from Latter-day Saints.They also join with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in helping frame what the temple ritual is and is not, the power of symbolic/mythic/ritual engagement in spiritual journeys, why changes to temple and other rituals are often made and why it is vital that they are. In these reflections, they each also share a bit about their own journeys to come to understand sacred texts—scripture, ritual scripts and practices, etc.—in new and far more profound ways than how they had earlier in their lives.

We may have this episode together quickly, but the insights and their power are anything but rushed and easily forgotten. Please listen in! You will not regret it! 

This episode suggests layers of depth to the Christian Nativity story and the insights it has for our own individual spiritual paths. It features meditation teacher and yogi Phil McLemore in conversation with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon about how many of the elements in the birth of Christ narrative can serve as models and teachers for our own birthing of Christ within us, our learning how to nurture and allow the development of the divinity that is our core (but is most often forgotten).

When we begin to understand that certain events portrayed in scripture are not historical, we often choose to dismiss them. This isn’t a good move, because in so doing we are throwing away chances to deepen our understanding of God and the journey we are being called to take, saying no to chances to gain insights about our true selves that can bring us great peace and reveal deep, deep significance to our lives. In short, as this conversation suggests, God is actually delighted when the literal understanding of the story no longer “does it” for us. Coming to this crossroad suggests that we are ready to go deeper, to begin to see more like mystics do, to have these stories become even more profoundly meaningful to us.

Listen in for new insights about how the things that happened in Mary are models for all of us, and how we must learn to identify with her. You’ll learn more about intercourse with God that still preserves virginity (again, we aren’t talking literal/physical things here). Why was it wonderful that there was “no room at the inn” and Jesus was instead born in a cave? Can we learn how to not just read the story, but instead become the story? It is a story that depicts the universal path to a full realization of our divine nature as human beings, just set within the particularity of Christianity. It’s quite exciting! Start listening now!

This is an encore presentation of a December 2011 Mormon Matters podcast episode examining the Christmas story as it traditionally gets told—looking closely at what the scriptures actually say and do not say about the birth of Jesus and all the pieces of this familiar story. For instance, how do the Matthew and Luke accounts differ—even irreconcilably? What are possible motives behind the Gospel writers’ decisions to shape the stories the way they did? What about Jesus’s place of birth and the reason the family was in Bethlehem (if they were)? Was there a great tax and registration? What about “no room at the inn,” the manger, the star, the magi, the story of Herod killing all male infants under two years old? How did Christmas come to be held on December 25th?

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Kristine Haglund, Jared Anderson, and Zina Petersen explore all these questions plus lead a fascinating tour into other parts of the Christmas story. Why are only five women mentioned in the Gospels’ presentations of Jesus’s lineage—and why are the ones listed all women with “questionable” sexual pasts? What are the Twelve Days of Christmas? What is the “Immaculate Conception” and how does it affect theology about Mary and ideas about the Eucharist and other religious devotions? How has pagan history and ideas folded into the history of “Christmas” (not Jesus’s birth but the celebration of it)? The panel discusses solstices and equinoxes, the meshing of calendaring systems, the link between carnivals and holy days, shepherds’ presents to the Christ child, and even a longstanding tradition of “ghost story” tie-ins with Christmas that Charles Dickens resurrected. Why was there a period of time in which Christmas was illegal?

The panelists also talk about Christmas music and other aesthetic elements that make this season so compelling for many people. Part of that discussion answers how and why the host and panelists and many other Christians throughout history, knowing all that they know about what likely is and is not factual about traditional accounts, still celebrate Christmas and zestfully sing carols alongside those for whom the stories are less complicated. How can those who understand that we are during this time dealing primarily in mythos rather than history (not only with the Christian story but also something like Santa Claus) still experience this season as spiritually enriching?

This is a two-part episode to be savored again!

This is an encore presentation of a December 2011 Mormon Matters podcast episode examining the Christmas story as it traditionally gets told—looking closely at what the scriptures actually say and do not say about the birth of Jesus and all the pieces of this familiar story. For instance, how do the Matthew and Luke accounts differ—even irreconcilably? What are possible motives behind the Gospel writers’ decisions to shape the stories the way they did? What about Jesus’s place of birth and the reason the family was in Bethlehem (if they were)? Was there a great tax and registration? What about “no room at the inn,” the manger, the star, the magi, the story of Herod killing all male infants under two years old? How did Christmas come to be held on December 25th?

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Kristine Haglund, Jared Anderson, and Zina Petersen explore all these questions plus lead a fascinating tour into other parts of the Christmas story. Why are only five women mentioned in the Gospels’ presentations of Jesus’s lineage—and why are the ones listed all women with “questionable” sexual pasts? What are the Twelve Days of Christmas? What is the “Immaculate Conception” and how does it affect theology about Mary and ideas about the Eucharist and other religious devotions? How has pagan history and ideas folded into the history of “Christmas” (not Jesus’s birth but the celebration of it)? The panel discusses solstices and equinoxes, the meshing of calendaring systems, the link between carnivals and holy days, shepherds’ presents to the Christ child, and even a longstanding tradition of “ghost story” tie-ins with Christmas that Charles Dickens resurrected. Why was there a period of time in which Christmas was illegal?

The panelists also talk about Christmas music and other aesthetic elements that make this season so compelling for many people. Part of that discussion answers how and why the host and panelists and many other Christians throughout history, knowing all that they know about what likely is and is not factual about traditional accounts, still celebrate Christmas and zestfully sing carols alongside those for whom the stories are less complicated. How can those who understand that we are during this time dealing primarily in mythos rather than history (not only with the Christian story but also something like Santa Claus) still experience this season as spiritually enriching?

This is a two-part episode to be savored again!

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon shares his experiences with the Christmas Nativity stories as presented in the New Testament, moving from literal belief through many years of confusion, to an eventual re-embrace of them even if parts (or all) of what is depicted therein are not historical. He traces the role of Christmas hymns about the Nativity (and NOT the "seasonal carols") in helping him feel again the call of Spirit after years of deliberately ignoring it, his coming in graduate school and after many years of wrestle to understand the scriptures and these stories in new ways that have allowed (even encouraged) him to once more enjoy all the gifts awaiting in the spiritual elements of Christmas embedded in the New Testament tales. 

Please enjoy this episode, and also be sure to download and listen to the encore presentations of the two-part Christmas Primer episode also released on the same day. May your Christmas season be full of joy, laughter, love, and peace!

This episode, "Table Manners" is a short reflection by Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon about ways we might interact with others this holiday season. "What manner of persons should we be? Even as They are" (3 Nephi 27:27, pronouns universalized).

Happy Thanksgiving! Merry Christmas! May all your holidays (holy-days) be wonderful and bright!

The Enneagram is a powerful tool for coming to know ourselves and others. Emerging in the mid-twentieth century and refined during the ensuing years, interest in it as a tool for aiding in one's spiritual growth, understanding ourselves and others, helping to build workplace and other kinds of teams that work well together, and shedding light on the dynamics between spouses, partners, family members, and friends has steadily—and for good reasons!—increased. 

In this four-part podcast episode, panelists Jana Riess and Jana Spangler, and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon share about the Enneagram itself and their experiences with it, but focus most of their attention (beginning in Part 2) on its specific applications to Mormonism, especially the ease or struggles to "fit in" or be rewarded/recognized/valued that typically arise as various personality types and the spiritual development of its members meet up with the church's truth claims, practices, institutional aspects, and Mormon culture.

In Part 4, the attention shifts to understanding the particularities of the types of spiritual work that would support each personality type as they journey toward wholenss. Each of us have a "shadow" that, beginning in childhood, was constructed to help us cope with a world that wasn't ideal in every way. Throughout our lives, and generally only when we are "forced" to confront the pain and subtle or very toxic messages we underwent and/or intuited, do we begin to notice and begin to confront these hidden aspects of ourselves. In this process, either undertaken by oneself or through partnership with a trusted therapist of spiritual director, we get in touch with these things that are keeping us back, that cause us to repeat certain patterns over and over even though we know they aren't serving us well, and, most of all, that hide ourselves from ourselves—our perfect, whole, and beloved and loving soul. It is through this "soul/shadow work" that we heal and see and feel, so much more than ever before, the joy and peace that is our birthright. 

We wouldn't put out a four-hour podcast if it weren't as fascinating and terrific a conversation that the panelists and Dan had, nor if we didn't feel the Enneagram were a wonderful tool and set of lenses through which we can better understand ourselves, our church leaders, our congregants (if leaders will listen in here), and, especially, the faith challenges (many specific to aspects of Mormonism) we and others face. Please listen in! As you get started, the prospect of a four-hour listen (over several segments of time, of course!) won't seem nearly so daunting! 

The Enneagram is a powerful tool for coming to know ourselves and others. Emerging in the mid-twentieth century and refined during the ensuing years, interest in it as a tool for aiding in one's spiritual growth, understanding ourselves and others, helping to build workplace and other kinds of teams that work well together, and shedding light on the dynamics between spouses, partners, family members, and friends has steadily—and for good reasons!—increased. 

In this four-part podcast episode, panelists Jana Riess and Jana Spangler, and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon share about the Enneagram itself and their experiences with it, but focus most of their attention (beginning in Part 2) on its specific applications to Mormonism, especially the ease or struggles to "fit in" or be rewarded/recognized/valued that typically arise as various personality types and the spiritual development of its members meet up with the church's truth claims, practices, institutional aspects, and Mormon culture.

In Part 4, the attention shifts to understanding the particularities of the types of spiritual work that would support each personality type as they journey toward wholenss. Each of us have a "shadow" that, beginning in childhood, was constructed to help us cope with a world that wasn't ideal in every way. Throughout our lives, and generally only when we are "forced" to confront the pain and subtle or very toxic messages we underwent and/or intuited, do we begin to notice and begin to confront these hidden aspects of ourselves. In this process, either undertaken by oneself or through partnership with a trusted therapist of spiritual director, we get in touch with these things that are keeping us back, that cause us to repeat certain patterns over and over even though we know they aren't serving us well, and, most of all, that hide ourselves from ourselves—our perfect, whole, and beloved and loving soul. It is through this "soul/shadow work" that we heal and see and feel, so much more than ever before, the joy and peace that is our birthright. 

We wouldn't put out a four-hour podcast if it weren't as fascinating and terrific a conversation that the panelists and Dan had, nor if we didn't feel the Enneagram were a wonderful tool and set of lenses through which we can better understand ourselves, our church leaders, our congregants (if leaders will listen in here), and, especially, the faith challenges (many specific to aspects of Mormonism) we and others face. Please listen in! As you get started, the prospect of a four-hour listen (over several segments of time, of course!) won't seem nearly so daunting! 

The Enneagram is a powerful tool for coming to know ourselves and others. Emerging in the mid-twentieth century and refined during the ensuing years, interest in it as a tool for aiding in one's spiritual growth, understanding ourselves and others, helping to build workplace and other kinds of teams that work well together, and shedding light on the dynamics between spouses, partners, family members, and friends has steadily—and for good reasons!—increased. 

In this four-part podcast episode, panelists Jana Riess and Jana Spangler, and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon share about the Enneagram itself and their experiences with it, but focus most of their attention (beginning in Part 2) on its specific applications to Mormonism, especially the ease or struggles to "fit in" or be rewarded/recognized/valued that typically arise as various personality types and the spiritual development of its members meet up with the church's truth claims, practices, institutional aspects, and Mormon culture.

In Part 4, the attention shifts to understanding the particularities of the types of spiritual work that would support each personality type as they journey toward wholenss. Each of us have a "shadow" that, beginning in childhood, was constructed to help us cope with a world that wasn't ideal in every way. Throughout our lives, and generally only when we are "forced" to confront the pain and subtle or very toxic messages we underwent and/or intuited, do we begin to notice and begin to confront these hidden aspects of ourselves. In this process, either undertaken by oneself or through partnership with a trusted therapist of spiritual director, we get in touch with these things that are keeping us back, that cause us to repeat certain patterns over and over even though we know they aren't serving us well, and, most of all, that hide ourselves from ourselves—our perfect, whole, and beloved and loving soul. It is through this "soul/shadow work" that we heal and see and feel, so much more than ever before, the joy and peace that is our birthright. 

We wouldn't put out a four-hour podcast if it weren't as fascinating and terrific a conversation that the panelists and Dan had, nor if we didn't feel the Enneagram were a wonderful tool and set of lenses through which we can better understand ourselves, our church leaders, our congregants (if leaders will listen in here), and, especially, the faith challenges (many specific to aspects of Mormonism) we and others face. Please listen in! As you get started, the prospect of a four-hour listen (over several segments of time, of course!) won't seem nearly so daunting! 

The Enneagram is a powerful tool for coming to know ourselves and others. Emerging in the mid-twentieth century and refined during the ensuing years, interest in it as a tool for aiding in one's spiritual growth, understanding ourselves and others, helping to build workplace and other kinds of teams that work well together, and shedding light on the dynamics between spouses, partners, family members, and friends has steadily—and for good reasons!—increased. 

In this four-part podcast episode, panelists Jana Riess and Jana Spangler, and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon share about the Enneagram itself and their experiences with it, but focus most of their attention (beginning in Part 2) on its specific applications to Mormonism, especially the ease or struggles to "fit in" or be rewarded/recognized/valued that typically arise as various personality types and the spiritual development of its members meet up with the church's truth claims, practices, institutional aspects, and Mormon culture.

In Part 4, the attention shifts to understanding the particularities of the types of spiritual work that would support each personality type as they journey toward wholenss. Each of us have a "shadow" that, beginning in childhood, was constructed to help us cope with a world that wasn't ideal in every way. Throughout our lives, and generally only when we are "forced" to confront the pain and subtle or very toxic messages we underwent and/or intuited, do we begin to notice and begin to confront these hidden aspects of ourselves. In this process, either undertaken by oneself or through partnership with a trusted therapist of spiritual director, we get in touch with these things that are keeping us back, that cause us to repeat certain patterns over and over even though we know they aren't serving us well, and, most of all, that hide ourselves from ourselves—our perfect, whole, and beloved and loving soul. It is through this "soul/shadow work" that we heal and see and feel, so much more than ever before, the joy and peace that is our birthright. 

We wouldn't put out a four-hour podcast if it weren't as fascinating and terrific a conversation that the panelists and Dan had, nor if we didn't feel the Enneagram were a wonderful tool and set of lenses through which we can better understand ourselves, our church leaders, our congregants (if leaders will listen in here), and, especially, the faith challenges (many specific to aspects of Mormonism) we and others face. Please listen in! As you get started, the prospect of a four-hour listen (over several segments of time, of course!) won't seem nearly so daunting! 

This is an encore presentation of an important and still very relevant two-part episode first released on 24 April 2017.

Covenanting is a huge feature of Mormon theology and group life. Beginning at age eight with baptism, and extending through the LDS temple endowment and sealing rites, Latter-day Saints are encouraged to make many covenants with God. Sunday services build into the sacrament ritual the chance to “renew” all the covenants one has made. For many Mormons, making and renewing these covenants are among the most sacred events of their lives, inspiring them to try to live up to the ideals for living and learning, and the promises, of each covenant. For other Latter-day Saints, especially those whose faith has shifted in the years following the moments they made covenants, the burden of having covenanted to do something that they are no longer as certain about, or perhaps even now reject, can be crushing. Some feel regret that the “Mormon track” has members make covenants at very young ages, prior to entering typical developmental stages when complexity enters one’s worldview: “If only I’d known what I know now, I would have chosen differently.” Others feel they were under-prepared for the specific covenants they made in the temple, and how when they reached that stage of the endowment they went ahead with making them partly because of family and loved ones who were present and expecting that of them. Mormonism teaches that when things are done through proper priesthood authority, “what is bound on earth is bound in heaven.” How, then, should someone whose journey is taking them into great complexity regarding Mormonism relate to such weighty covenants?

In this episode, Charles Randall Paul, Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, and Joseph Stanford, join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a wonderful and intense query into covenanting within Mormonism and whether or not the nature of covenants, or God, has an expectation of personal growth and change that would naturally affect our views and understandings of promises we have made previously. They also discuss what exactly are we “bound” to with regard to our covenants, and several other important aspects of this topic. The panel shares their own experiences and thoughts about their covenanting pasts and their relationships with these covenants now. At every step, they seek to present and celebrate their best thinking and ideas about we humans as covenanters that don’t rely upon our having a static relationship with God and an “etched in stone at the time one covenanted” understanding of this important element of the spiritual life.

This is an encore presentation of an important and still very relevant two-part episode first released on 24 April 2017.

Covenanting is a huge feature of Mormon theology and group life. Beginning at age eight with baptism, and extending through the LDS temple endowment and sealing rites, Latter-day Saints are encouraged to make many covenants with God. Sunday services build into the sacrament ritual the chance to “renew” all the covenants one has made. For many Mormons, making and renewing these covenants are among the most sacred events of their lives, inspiring them to try to live up to the ideals for living and learning, and the promises, of each covenant. For other Latter-day Saints, especially those whose faith has shifted in the years following the moments they made covenants, the burden of having covenanted to do something that they are no longer as certain about, or perhaps even now reject, can be crushing. Some feel regret that the “Mormon track” has members make covenants at very young ages, prior to entering typical developmental stages when complexity enters one’s worldview: “If only I’d known what I know now, I would have chosen differently.” Others feel they were under-prepared for the specific covenants they made in the temple, and how when they reached that stage of the endowment they went ahead with making them partly because of family and loved ones who were present and expecting that of them. Mormonism teaches that when things are done through proper priesthood authority, “what is bound on earth is bound in heaven.” How, then, should someone whose journey is taking them into great complexity regarding Mormonism relate to such weighty covenants?

In this episode, Charles Randall Paul, Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, and Joseph Stanford, join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a wonderful and intense query into covenanting within Mormonism and whether or not the nature of covenants, or God, has an expectation of personal growth and change that would naturally affect our views and understandings of promises we have made previously. They also discuss what exactly are we “bound” to with regard to our covenants, and several other important aspects of this topic. The panel shares their own experiences and thoughts about their covenanting pasts and their relationships with these covenants now. At every step, they seek to present and celebrate their best thinking and ideas about we humans as covenanters that don’t rely upon our having a static relationship with God and an “etched in stone at the time one covenanted” understanding of this important element of the spiritual life.

This episode features two wonderful and creative thinkers and religious souls whose lives have been deeply influenced by Joseph Smith. But here is the kicker: neither are Latter-day Saints. Jane Barnes and Rob Lauer view Joseph through eyes we don't often (if ever) encounter within institutional Mormonism. Perhaps very few outside some who knew him personally were attracted by what most fascinates and enlivens them.

Jane was the primary writer and researcher for the 2007 PBS/Frontline and Helen Whitney produced documentary film, The Mormons. During her time working on the film, and even earlier, she came to appreciate Joseph as a dynamic, creative, prophetic figure, and she even had a "conversion" experience in which she understood him as a key figure in her awakening to her own spirituality. Ultimately, her experiences led her to write a much-celebrated memoir, Falling in Love with Joseph Smith: My Search for the Real Prophet (Tarcher/Penguin, 2012).

Rob encountered Joseph Smith in his teens, and connected deeply with him in a way that led him to join the church. As he encountered the disconnect between how he saw and encountered Joseph versus how the church and its culture had tamed him and bleached out of him most of the color and life that he had been attracted to, he left Mormonism. He re-joined for a while, even co-directing the Hill Cumorah pageant for seven years, before he felt Joseph's teachings led him out of the church again—but not because he didn't embrace them any longer but because they empowered him to see his being gay as an essential part of his deep spiritual identity, while also seeing that the church wasn't capable of sustaining him as a gay man. To this day, however, he still says his is a religion "of" Joseph Smith (meaning he believes his key and empowering insights about humans, gods, and life's highest call).

Interestingly, both Jane and Rob encountered Joseph Smith first through Fawn Brodie's book, No One Knows My History, which is generally thought by members as anti-Mormon. For them, however, they found a powerful figure on a unique journey, with gifts and creativity, that became a catalyst for their own spiritual walks.

Notice as you listen to this episode how taking a fresh look at Joseph from outside the "boxes" we in the church so often put him in and want to limit him to can allow us to see him in much more vibrant detail. As writers and artists (novelist/filmmaker and playwright/television producer/newspaper editor), they see Joseph as bold and imaginative as well as good and kind, but also as broken and full of contradictions, many of them that are very unappealing. Still, they see him as a "prophet" in the larger sense of the word rather than the limited view we in the church have cultivated as we have  idealized the term, turned the title into a "president" of an institution, and shied away from representing him in all his humanness. It's this very humanness that leads them to love and appreciate him in ways that feel, at least to me, to be much more powerful than the level of encounter of most Latter-day Saints.

Dr. LaShawn Williams (EdD., LCSW, MPA) is on the faculty at Utah Valley University, where she teaches students studying social work. LaShawn was raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and faced many challenges associated with being a black child and then black woman in a predominantly white church community (in the United States) from the 1980s to the present day. In this episode she freely and forthrightly shares about these sorts of challenges as they played out in her life and that of her family. But most of all, the conversation involves how these challenges (and a wonderfully supportive parents) led to her developing a fierce sense of her own right to question things and use her voice to speak up for things that so many of us fail to even notice, let alone think about. She also shares how so much of this power and confidence emerged from a deep spiritual life and connection with God and Jesus Christ—one that was often severely tried but never severed.

As a result of this confidence, she and six other black women formed the Black LDS Legacy Committee, which earlier this year began to put on events that brought forward the history and firm roots of black people in Mormonism right from the beginning on through now. And it was through the Committee's determination to tell these stories that the Church itself embraced their ideas in such strength that they became one of the driving forces behind what became the "Be One" event that occurred in the Conference Center on June 1, 2018, acknowledging and celebrating the fortieth anniversary of the 1978 revelation that officially restored to black persons what LaShawn and many others already knew, that all are equal before God, and they should be recognized as such by access to the temple and its covenants and blessings, as well as priesthood power and leadership. It is terrific that in this episode we have a chance to hear pieces of that story—and about what she and the rest of the members of the committee are planning to do next.

In the final section of this two-part episode, LaShawn and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon discuss spiritual work, inner work, Godwrestling, and how and why we are all called by God/Life to re-examine everything and come to better grasp who we are as divine beings who, as is natural, allowed our veiled understanding of this deep truth become clouded by life's ups and downs and various messaging to the contrary that we let influence us and further bury this sense of our noble birthright. The focus, of course, is on ways we can and the importance of going into these difficult spaces, into our woundedness, into the roots of why we often refuse to believe that we are infinitely worthy. It's a terrific segment, as is this whole interview.

We know you'll enjoy listening!

Dr. LaShawn Williams (EdD., LCSW, MPA) is on the faculty at Utah Valley University, where she teaches students studying social work. LaShawn was raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and faced many challenges associated with being a black child and then black woman in a predominantly white church community (in the United States) from the 1980s to the present day. In this episode she freely and forthrightly shares about these sorts of challenges as they played out in her life and that of her family. But most of all, the conversation involves how these challenges (and a wonderfully supportive parents) led to her developing a fierce sense of her own right to question things and use her voice to speak up for things that so many of us fail to even notice, let alone think about. She also shares how so much of this power and confidence emerged from a deep spiritual life and connection with God and Jesus Christ—one that was often severely tried but never severed.

As a result of this confidence, she and six other black women formed the Black LDS Legacy Committee, which earlier this year began to put on events that brought forward the history and firm roots of black people in Mormonism right from the beginning on through now. And it was through the Committee's determination to tell these stories that the Church itself embraced their ideas in such strength that they became one of the driving forces behind what became the "Be One" event that occurred in the Conference Center on June 1, 2018, acknowledging and celebrating the fortieth anniversary of the 1978 revelation that officially restored to black persons what LaShawn and many others already knew, that all are equal before God, and they should be recognized as such by access to the temple and its covenants and blessings, as well as priesthood power and leadership. It is terrific that in this episode we have a chance to hear pieces of that story—and about what she and the rest of the members of the committee are planning to do next.

In the final section of this two-part episode, LaShawn and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon discuss spiritual work, inner work, Godwrestling, and how and why we are all called by God/Life to re-examine everything and come to better grasp who we are as divine beings who, as is natural, allowed our veiled understanding of this deep truth become clouded by life's ups and downs and various messaging to the contrary that we let influence us and further bury this sense of our noble birthright. The focus, of course, is on ways we can and the importance of going into these difficult spaces, into our woundedness, into the roots of why we often refuse to believe that we are infinitely worthy. It's a terrific segment, as is this whole interview.

Please listen!

The October 2018 General Conference has just concluded, but certainly not the discussion of it! Not for many, many months in our wards, stakes, and various gatherings of Mormons, and not here on Mormon Matters podcast (though we promise it won't be for "months and months")!

It was a fascinating conference with quite a few different dynamics at play, and so we gathered the next evening three wonderful and brilliant church and conference watcher—Jenne Alderks, Scott Turley, and Sara Lake—to share their immediate, raw, unprocessed but very powerful takes on what they noticed and how they experienced it. What followed was a remarkably energetic, passionate, moving—as well as fun (even a slight bit snarky at times conversation). Along with Mormon Matters host, Dan Wotherspoon, each shared from her or his compassionate and empathetic heart and soul, offering gratitude and praise where they felt it was deserved (and the cases were many), and sorrow, frustration, confusion, and genuine exasperation, sorrow, and hurt over some teachings or leader choices that called for it.

The discussion begins with reactions to, and wondering how the newly announced two-hour block of meetings will play out in the lives of Latter-day Saints. It then turns to key talks and features of the conference. Part 1 addresses a few talks, though some of the same ones continue to be discussed in the second part, but it primarily features an extended conversation about the General Women's Session and its messaging, both wonderful and hurtful, not to mention confusing in its mixed signaling. Part 2 features discussions of the panelists other highlights or lowlights, and is careful to be aware of those who are listening who might not have followed conference at all and are coming to this episode for their first exposure to what went on and how many our reacting to it. Dan closes this section by offering a few comments that remained on his list but were unspoken during the main recording session.

We believe that anyone who listens to this episode will be captivated by the fun the panelists had together even while they were raising deeply heartfelt issues and experiences. Please tune in! You are also invited to contribute to the conversations in the Comments section for this episode at MormonMatters.org. Thank you!

The October 2018 General Conference has just concluded, but certainly not the discussion of it! Not for many, many months in our wards, stakes, and various gatherings of Mormons, and not here on Mormon Matters podcast (though we promise it won't be for "months and months")!

It was a fascinating conference with quite a few different dynamics at play, and so we gathered the next evening three wonderful and brilliant church and conference watcher—Jenne Alderks, Scott Turley, and Sara Lake—to share their immediate, raw, unprocessed but very powerful takes on what they noticed and how they experienced it. What followed was a remarkably energetic, passionate, moving—as well as fun (even a slight bit snarky at times conversation). Along with Mormon Matters host, Dan Wotherspoon, each shared from her or his compassionate and empathetic heart and soul, offering gratitude and praise where they felt it was deserved (and the cases were many), and sorrow, frustration, confusion, and genuine exasperation, sorrow, and hurt over some teachings or leader choices that called for it.

The discussion begins with reactions to, and wondering how the newly announced two-hour block of meetings will play out in the lives of Latter-day Saints. It then turns to key talks and features of the conference. Part 1 addresses a few talks, though some of the same ones continue to be discussed in the second part, but it primarily features an extended conversation about the General Women's Session and its messaging, both wonderful and hurtful, not to mention confusing in its mixed signaling. Part 2 features discussions of the panelists other highlights or lowlights, and is careful to be aware of those who are listening who might not have followed conference at all and are coming to this episode for their first exposure to what went on and how many our reacting to it. Dan closes this section by offering a few comments that remained on his list but were unspoken during the main recording session.

We believe that anyone who listens to this episode will be captivated by the fun the panelists had together even while they were raising deeply heartfelt issues and experiences. Please tune in! You are also invited to contribute to the conversations in the Comments section for this episode at MormonMatters.org. Thank you!

We've all heard statements such as, "Obedience is the first law of heaven." We've also been charged to seek our own light and revelation on any teaching or directive presented before the whole church. What happens when the second injunction challenges the first? If we in good "conscience" (what many Latter-day Saints call the Light of Christ) cannot assent to what's put forward (and this can include in our local church settings, as well), how shall we approach this dilemma? It seems that wrestles with this particular pairing of injunctions—obedience and conscience—arise around general conference time, so this is a timely podcast.

For this discussion, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by the wonderful and thoughtful Jana Riess, Caleb Jones, and Eric Huntsman. Each of them share terrific ideas about how they frame and clarify in their own minds and hearts as the horns of this dilemma arise in their own lives. They dive into the origins of and wider issues surrounding "obedience," and much more! The conversation is absolutely terrific!

Please listen and then share your responses at the Mormon Matters podcast website!

We've all heard statements such as, "Obedience is the first law of heaven." We've also been charged to seek our own light and revelation on any teaching or directive presented before the whole church. What happens when the second challenges the first? If we in good "conscience" (what many Latter-day Saints call the Light of Christ) cannot assent to what's put forward (and this can include in our local church settings, as well), how shall we approach this dilemma? It seems that wrestles with this particular pairing of injunctions—obedience and conscience—arise around general conference time, so this is a timely podcast.

For this discussion, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by the wonderful and thoughtful Jana Riess, Caleb Jones, and Eric Huntsman. Each of them share terrific ideas about how they frame and clarify in their own minds and hearts as the horns of this dilemma arise in their own lives. They dive into the origins of and wider issues surrounding "obedience," and much more! The conversation is absolutely terrific!

Please listen and then share your responses at the Mormon Matters podcast website!

In just over a week after the release of this podcast episode, millions of Latter-day Saints from around the world will gather in person or other ways to hear messages from Mormonism's highest leadership councils. No one knows in advance what messages will be presented, what each male of female leader will have been inspired to prepare for the membership, but it has become a favorite pastime of many to speculate, and especially when leaders have given certain hints about possible changes in the near horizon. Such is the case here again.

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by two other close conference watcher, Susan Hinckley and James Cottrell to discuss what we are hearing (and in that arena they focus primarily upon remarks given by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland three weeks ago in Draper, Utah, which contain several provocative statements), what we hope might happen, worry might happen, but most importantly how these three prepare themselves in advance to be able to receive whatever unfolds with an open and compassionate heart, and to be thoughtful and careful as they weigh the messages and policy or program changes that get announced.

The discussion is terrific. Please listen, enjoy, and allow yourselves to breath deeply and put yourself in as good a frame of mind as you can.

Please listen and enjoy!   

In just over a week after the release of this podcast episode, millions of Latter-day Saints from around the world will gather in person or other ways to hear messages from Mormonism's highest leadership councils. No one knows in advance what messages will be presented, what each male of female leader will have been inspired to prepare for the membership, but it has become a favorite pastime of many to speculate, and especially when leaders have given certain hints about possible changes in the near horizon. Such is the case here again.

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by two other close conference watchers, Susan Hinckley and James Cottrell to discuss what we are hearing (and in that arena they focus primarily upon remarks given by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland three weeks ago in Draper, Utah, which contain several provocative statements), what we hope might happen, worry might happen, but most importantly how these three prepare themselves in advance to be able to receive whatever unfolds with an open and compassionate heart, and to be thoughtful and careful as they weigh the messages and policy or program changes that get announced.

The discussion is terrific. Please listen, enjoy, and allow yourselves to breath deeply and put yourself in as good a frame of mind as you can.

Just two weeks ago, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released the first volume of its long-awaited history of the church series, Saints: The Standard of Truth. Written in the form of an engaging narrative, this book covers events in church history beginning in 1815 and concluding in 1846 as the Saints were forced out of Nauvoo and headed to Iowa to prepare to embark the next year on their westward migration.

The book includes like nothing before in official church history many stories about women—of their heroism, brilliant minds, and spiritual depth—who contributed mightily to the establishment and survival of the early church. It introduces many stories of immigrants and black Latter-day Saints, and their faith and successes in helping build and shape the Restoration. This new official church history volume is also especially notable for how it includes many details (often viewed as difficult and faith-dampening) about persons and events that are likely unknown to most Latter-day Saints. These include: an unprecedented-in-church-curricula amount of forthright attention to Joseph Smith's involvement in treasure seeking, an expanded First Vision depiction that is woven together and harmonized from Joseph's four first-hand accounts of what he experienced in the grove; a story of the translation of the Book of Mormon that includes his use of a seer stone and a hat in bringing it forth; the failures of the Kirtland Safety Society and Zion's Camp (referred to in the volume as the Camp of Israel); Joseph's own personal engagement in polygamous marriages; the Saints' own sometimes aggressive behavior that fueled escalations of violence against them; questionable decisions regarding calling certain individuals to high positions within the church, as well as choosing to destroy the press that printed the Nauvoo Expositor, which led quite directly to Joseph's and Hyrum's martyrdom.

We are thrilled and blessed to have the voices and perspectives of brilliant panelists in this two-part episode. They are the wonderful Megan Burnside, David E. MacKay, Brittney Hartley, and Cristina Rosetti. In Part 1 (Episode 508), they focus on the project itself and the approach to its history the church has chosen to take, their sense of the project's contributions along with areas in which it falls short, and their takes on what seem to be the church's primary goals in creating this series and how successful they think they will be met through an effort such as this. In Part 2 (Episode 509), they focus in on specific stories in the volumes and the choices that were made regarding what to leave in, what to leave out, why the church might have chosen to emphasize the reading of historical documents the way they did, over and against other options (some fairly well known but passed over here in favor of others). In every instance and comment, the tremendous intellects and good, good hearts of each panelist shine brightly. 

Please listen and enjoy!

Just two weeks ago, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released the first volume of its long-awaited history of the church series, Saints: The Standard of Truth. Written in the form of an engaging narrative, this book covers events in church history beginning in 1815 and concluding in 1846 as the Saints were forced out of Nauvoo and headed to Iowa to prepare to embark the next year on their westward migration.

The book includes like nothing before in official church history many stories about women—of their heroism, brilliant minds, and spiritual depth—who contributed mightily to the establishment and survival of the early church. It introduces many stories of immigrants and black Latter-day Saints, and their faith and successes in helping build and shape the Restoration. This new official church history volume is also especially notable for how it includes many details (often viewed as difficult and faith-dampening) about persons and events that are likely unknown to most Latter-day Saints. These include: an unprecedented-in-church-curricula amount of forthright attention to Joseph Smith's involvement in treasure seeking, an expanded First Vision depiction that is woven together and harmonized from Joseph's four first-hand accounts of what he experienced in the grove; a story of the translation of the Book of Mormon that includes his use of a seer stone and a hat in bringing it forth; the failures of the Kirtland Safety Society and Zion's Camp (referred to in the volume as the Camp of Israel); Joseph's own personal engagement in polygamous marriages; the Saints' own sometimes aggressive behavior that fueled escalations of violence against them; questionable decisions regarding calling certain individuals to high positions within the church, as well as choosing to destroy the press that printed the Nauvoo Expositor, which led quite directly to Joseph's and Hyrum's martyrdom.

We are thrilled and blessed to have the voices and perspectives of brilliant panelists in this two-part episode. They are the wonderful Megan Burnside, David E. MacKay, Brittney Hartley, and Cristina Rosetti. In Part 1 (Episode 508), they focus on the project itself and the approach to its history the church has chosen to take, their sense of the project's contributions along with areas in which it falls short, and their takes on what seem to be the church's primary goals in creating this series and how successful they think they will be met through an effort such as this. In Part 2 (Episode 509), they focus in on specific stories in the volumes and the choices that were made regarding what to leave in, what to leave out, why the church might have chosen to emphasize the reading of historical documents the way they did, over and against other options (some fairly well known but passed over here in favor of others). In every instance and comment, the tremendous intellects and good, good hearts of each panelist shine brightly. 

Please listen and enjoy!  

At this moment, with the 2018 October General Conference just weeks away, many Latter-day Saints are—consciously and unconsciously—going through in their minds and hearts how they view and feel about teachings from the church's top leaders. What is their authoritative status? Are they to be considered on par with (or even superior and more authoritative than) the teachings found within the Standard Works? And what about our own personal revelation on particular subjects? How does that fit into the mix with scripture and statements and teachings from LDS general authorities? Do we leave aside our own sense of what God has led us to believe and simply shape our worldviews according to the leaders' teachings because they  can't/won't lead us astray? Or do we wrestle and seek a way to honor all these sources of authority? This episode discusses these and other dilemmas related to what makes something "canonical" (in some way)—for the church as a whole, and/or for each of us personally.

In addition to the upcoming general conference, this conversation was prompted by a set of studies and essays that have been recently compiled together and published in a new volume: The Expanded Canon: Perspectives on Mormonism & Sacred Texts (Greg Kofford Books). In the episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and the book's three editors, Blair Van Dyke, Brian D. Birch, and Boyd J. Peterson share about the above, and other book topics. They go into those mentioned above, as well as the authoritative status of women's writings, the nature of the shifts the church's views on electronic publishing have undergone (are we seeing online versions of the scriptures and other teachings shared via the web as equal in status of the same things in print?), and also the authoritative status of official "Proclamations" the church has issued in the past, and recently, with a particular focus on "The Family: A Proclamation to the World." To what degree are various Latter-day Saints incorporating this proclamation into their own "personal canon"? 

Dan and the editors also briefly introduce other subjects taken on in the volume, such as the best way to approach reading scriptures, the place and role of the Golden Plates in LDS consciousness and conversation, how the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price wound their way into canonical status, as well as the very character of each of the teachings within these books and what tasks or roles they perform in Mormon hearts and minds. They also overview a few particulars of most of the book's other topics, including how one non-Mormon scholar of religion approaches LDS truth claims, especially those contained in discussions surrounding the Golden Plates: their finding, taking possession of, translating, and being revealed to chosen witnesses, and proposes a third way that falls between full belief in all the events as reported and the conclusion many land on: that Joseph Smith is fraud and deliberate deceiver. And finally, what about patriarchal blessings? How do Mormons view them and their role in their personal lives? Where do these reverenced spiritual creations fit in the idea of the Mormon (or personal) "canon" ?

The episode grounds itself in the book and its coming together, but The Expanded Canon is used primarily as a springboard for getting into the profound issues and the wrestles they generate for both the institutional church and its members. We think you will really enjoy what transpires in this two-part episode, and that you will come away with many things worth chewing on in your own church- and self-examinations.

At this moment, with the 2018 October General Conference just weeks away, many Latter-day Saints are—consciously and unconsciously—going through in their minds and hearts how they view and feel about teachings from the church's top leaders. What is their authoritative status? Are they to be considered on par with (or even superior and more authoritative than) the teachings found within the Standard Works? And what about our own personal revelation on particular subjects? How does that fit into the mix with scripture and statements and teachings from LDS general authorities? Do we leave aside our own sense of what God has led us to believe and simply shape our worldviews according to the leaders' teachings because they  can't/won't lead us astray? Or do we wrestle and seek a way to honor all these sources of authority? This episode discusses these and other dilemmas related to what makes something "canonical" (in some way)—for the church as a whole, and/or for each of us personally.

In addition to the upcoming general conference, this conversation was prompted by a set of studies and essays that have been recently compiled together and published in a new volume: The Expanded Canon: Perspectives on Mormonism & Sacred Texts (Greg Kofford Books). In the episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and the book's three editors, Blair Van Dyke, Brian D. Birch, and Boyd J. Peterson share about the above, and other book topics. They go into those mentioned above, as well as the authoritative status of women's writings, the nature of the shifts the church's views on electronic publishing have undergone (are we seeing online versions of the scriptures and other teachings shared via the web as equal in status of the same things in print?), and also the authoritative status of official "Proclamations" the church has issued in the past, and recently, with a particular focus on "The Family: A Proclamation to the World." To what degree are various Latter-day Saints incorporating this proclamation into their own "personal canon"? 

Dan and the editors also briefly introduce other subjects taken on in the volume, such as the best way to approach reading scriptures, the place and role of the Golden Plates in LDS consciousness and conversation, how the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price wound their way into canonical status, as well as the very character of each of the teachings within these books and what tasks or roles they perform in Mormon hearts and minds. They also overview a few particulars of most of the book's other topics, including how one non-Mormon scholar of religion approaches LDS truth claims, especially those contained in discussions surrounding the Golden Plates: their finding, taking possession of, translating, and being revealed to chosen witnesses, and proposes a third way that falls between full belief in all the events as reported and the conclusion many land on: that Joseph Smith is fraud and deliberate deceiver. And finally, what about patriarchal blessings? How do Mormons view them and their role in their personal lives? Where do these reverenced spiritual creations fit in the idea of the Mormon (or personal) "canon" ?

The episode speaks of the book and tells of its coming together, but it is used primarily as a springboard for getting into these quite profound issues and the wrestles they generate for both the institutional church and its members. We think you will really enjoy what transpires in this two-part episode, and will come away with many things worth chewing on in your own church- and self-examinations.

No one who has appeared before on Mormon Matters has a more interesting, diverse, and ecumenical religious journey than Father Tom Roberts—one that also includes Mormonism from his very early years on through today. Father Tom has been on the show several times in the past, but in this episode we query in greater depth than previously about his faith walk, and we also zero in far more directly on his main study, writing, and teaching emphases: theosis/divinization and the enthronement passages within the Hebrew Bible and New Testament that are so often not not even noticed, let alone understood at all, by Christians and Latter-day Saints, as well as (what he has most recently released in a short book) divorce and remarriage from a Middle Eastern Biblical approach. It's a study that in some instances very clearly shows how so many in Christendom have completely missed the meaning of such difficult passages as "It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery" (Matthew 5:31–32). The clarifications Tom offers on these matters is much, much needed!

A big question framing the podcast is also how might a better understanding of the topics touched on herein mitigate some of the deep malaise many Latter-day Saints are feeling because of the primary ways that the correlated church has chosen to present the scriptures, as well as its own most profound teachings, in such a flat and quite lifeless way.

We believe you'll be intrigued by much that Father Tom shares in this interview, and we hope that some will feel drawn to contact Tom to possibly collaborate with him on projects and dialogues and in study settings. The rewards could be many.

Earlier this month, Mormon Matters released its 500th episode. In this two-part podcast, host Dan Wotherspoon speaks about the show's evolution, but mostly he re-introduces some of the major themes and angles of approach to Mormonism and personal faith journeys--ideas, analogies, and framings that have come up fairly regularly in the show's history, either directly or in passing as its panel discussions centered on specific topics.

We hope long-time listeners as well as those less familiar with the podcast and its basic sensibilities will find it fun to re-immerse in topics such as the importance of answering the call to explore one's faith more deeply, to begin the quests of what Joseph Campbell has labeled the "hero's journey," to examine the different types of truth in play within human lives and how asking religion or spirituality questions solely from another field and its methodologies will never yield fully satisfying answers. To revisit Father David Steindl-Rast's analogy of how religions begin and take their shape by comparing their starts to the eruption of a volcano and what transpires over time following the bursts.

In another section, Dan concentrates on various ways to approach scripture that might enliven them for us once more, should our current ways of reading and encountering the material in them have begun to wax cold--and he then suggests how these same approaches might also revive the way we look at and the gifts we receive through our prayer lives, temple attendance, and so forth. He then takes on questions and issues so many of us face as we as individuals interact with institutions. How do we honor both our wants and needs as well as those of the Church? What can we learn from realizing the reality of these different types of goals and how this de-fangs in some way the negativity that can be generated as they end up, as so often they do, at cross-purposes? How can we protect ourselves from being swallowed up by the institution and losing our connection with God and the primacy of our own journey and growth?

We hope you'll enjoy this trip down memory lane, and its refreshers about important themes and sensibilities that often play out within Mormon Matters discussions!

Earlier this month, Mormon Matters released its 500th episode. In this two-part podcast, host Dan Wotherspoon speaks about the show's evolution, but mostly he re-introduces some of the major themes and angles of approach to Mormonism and personal faith journeys--ideas, analogies, and framings that have come up fairly regularly in the show's history, either directly or in passing as its panel discussions centered on specific topics.

We hope long-time listeners as well as those less familiar with the podcast and its basic sensibilities will find it fun to re-immerse in topics such as the importance of answering the call to explore one's faith more deeply, to begin the quests of what Joseph Campbell has labeled the "hero's journey," to examine the different types of truth in play within human lives and how asking religion or spirituality questions solely from another field and its methodologies will never yield fully satisfying answers. To revisit Father David Steindl-Rast's analogy of how religions begin and take their shape by comparing their starts to the eruption of a volcano and what transpires over time following the bursts.

In another section, Dan concentrates on various ways to approach scripture that might enliven them for us once more, should our current ways of reading and encountering the material in them have begun to wax cold--and he then suggests how these same approaches might also revive the way we look at and the gifts we receive through our prayer lives, temple attendance, and so forth. He then takes on questions and issues so many of us face as we as individuals interact with institutions. How do we honor both our wants and needs as well as those of the Church? What can we learn from realizing the reality of these different types of goals and how this de-fangs in some way the negativity that can be generated as they end up, as so often they do, at cross-purposes? How can we protect ourselves from being swallowed up by the institution and losing our connection with God and the primacy of our own journey and growth?

We hope you'll enjoy this trip down memory lane, and its refreshers about important themes and sensibilities that often play out within Mormon Matters discussions!

On 16 August 2018, the Newsroom website for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released an official statement that set off a significant discussion that, by all indications including additional commentary on the Newsroom site that came later, will be ongoing for quite a while. The statement begins with the following words from President Russell M. Nelson: "The Lord has impressed upon my mind the importance of the name He has revealed for His Church, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We have work before us to bring ourselves in harmony with His will." The quotation continues and the statement reiterates that more information about implementation of this directive is forthcoming.

Accompanying the statement, the Newsroom piece links to an updated style guide for how to reference the church (asking journalists and its own employees and members to follow this, as well) that encourages the use of the church's full name whenever possible and choosing something other than "Mormon" or "Mormonism" to refer to individual church members or the religious tradition as a whole. It also asks all to eschew the use of the acronym "LDS." Another bulleted item that has generated a good deal of reaction reads: ". . . when describing the combination of doctrine, culture and lifestyle unique to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the term 'the restored gospel of Jesus Christ' is accurate and preferred."

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by two experienced and articulate church watchers—Mark Crego and Taylor Petrey—to discuss these matters, including their own reactions as well as those of others with whom they've been speaking with in person or at church or whose thoughts they have encountered online. The conversation also takes us into early Christian history to try to discern the way the earliest followers of Jesus referred to themselves, how important it was to them to have a name, and if so, by their name choice if they were inclined to emphasize being a follower of Jesus, or was it more reflective of their coming to live in a new way that focused on practices centered on loving and forgiving others, sharing resources, assisting those in need, and so forth? It then takes the elements of that dive and relates them to the present moment of the new statement and emphasis.

Beyond that, the panelists wonder about how the leaders and members might implement what is being asked, guess about possible reactions by journalists and members and leaders of other Christian churches (Will they go along with it? Will they be offended by the preferred designations?), as also discuss the provocative claim in the bulleted point about including the "culture and lifestyle" unique to the church in what they should refer to with the term, "the restored gospel of Jesus Christ." Finally, they discuss the form in which this official statement came forth, an announcement emphasizing that this initiative is based on an impression received by President Nelson rather than putting it in terms of it having been an injunction that emerged from the full processes that typically involve careful vetting by and unanimity among the entire First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

Even if you've already begun to formulate your own thoughts about this new push to emphasize the church's full name and de-emphasize monikers that have been around for a long time, you'll be surprised by much that's here in this episode, as it goes into topic areas that are not yet being fully explored in depth. Let the conversations continue! 

This episode features reflections on a wonderful experience the two panelists and I shared this past week in Albuquerque, NM. All three of us—Jana Spangler, JoDee Baird, and I, Dan Wotherspoon—attended the August 2018 symposium of The Living School, which is sponsored and operated by the Center for Action and Contemplation (CAC) that Richard Rohr, a Fransiscan monk and highly regarded author, speaker, and seminar leader, founded in 1987. The Living School is a two-year “underground seminary”   in which students immerse themselves in the history and practices of the world’s great contemplative traditions, primarily Christianity, but with much crossover with Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, and others. The instruction and experiences students have are not only for their own benefit, however. Both the CAC’s and Living School’s name include “action” along with “contemplation.” Students emerge with a greater depth of experience with God/Source/Animating Force of all life, and from that wellspring they work in the world in ways that try to alleviate suffering of all types—whatever they discern as the focus and work they are being called to do.

Besides Richard Rohr, two other incredible teachers and practitioners of contemplation of many types, Cynthia Bourgeault and James Finley, make up the School’s “core faculty.” The rhythm of being a student in the Living School involves attending the August symposium three times, a one-week “intensive” with Richard in the winter or spring of the next year, and committing to studying each month various assigned texts and presentations of the teachings of the world’s greatest mystics and teachers, and then processing in a small group that meets online the ideas and insights that have been striking us most deeply.

We on this show certainly share quite a few specifics about the Living School itself, as we know that some listeners might want to consider applying to it at some future date (in fact, the application process for an August 2019 start is currently open), but even if that doesn’t seem like something feasible for someone, we try to keep our conversation broad enough to be interesting to anyone who feels drawn to deepening their connection with God/Source, their community, and the wider world, especially in action and solidarity with those who are suffering.

I believe you’ll really enjoy listening!

This episode celebrates a new book by Charles Randall Paul, Converting the Saints: A Study of Religious Rivalry in America (Greg Kofford Books), but even more so the ways of he thinks about how we should engage all conflicts over ideas for which there are no clear ways of measuring value or correctness. His direct study in this book examines three different sets of Protestant missionaries in the early twentieth century who came to Utah to convert them to "true Christianity," as well as the different approaches and strategies they employed. These historical examples are placed in very rich context--not only historical and religious but also theoretical. In Paul's hands, the case of Mormon/Protestant attempts at persuasive engagement in Utah illustrate fundamental keys to understanding conflict between values and ideals in many, many situations: certainly political and economic, but also in more directly personal interactions between spouses and partners, wider families, and religious communities themselves. Basically, any situation in which conflicts over deeply important issues that are ultimately unresolvable arise. 

In this discussion with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, Randy (as Dan calls him because of their nearly thirty year friendship) offers terrific insights about interpersonal and group dynamics that truly make real, practical sense, shares a bit about the case studies this book shares about, and then offers a glimpse into his ideas for, what Richard Bushman says is "a compelling course of action for transforming harsh conflict to peaceful contestation."

Hint: Randy's proposals call for our more fully owning our own truths and then engaging in attempts to persuade others that ours in the truest view or the best way to approach important questions and problems--and allowing others to openly and vulnerably share theirs with us. These engagements, however, are dangerous as we just may realize areas in our sureties that deserve for us to take another look at, or even that we might become fully convinced by the others and possibly begin to align ourselves with their communities and causes. In short, Randy is calling for far more open-hearted, fully-owned, vulnerable and receptive engagement by "missionaries"--whether religious in nature, or political, economic, philosophical, or something else. He encourages all of us to be willing to come to the arena, agree to follow certain conventions, internalize key attitudes toward the nature of the contestation we are getting involved in, and to then go for it even as we understand that what might unfold there (or "in" us) is unpredictable.  

Randy is energetic and engaging, and his insights fresh and very much needed at this time within the United States and rest of the world, as well as within Mormonism as it stands at this crossroads with how to engage intra-religiously and interpersonally with Saints who see things differently than many in leadership (or at least in terms of what they feel able to say publicly) and the majority of those in the pews. This episode is a must listen! Be prepared, though, as you might possibly become changed in some fundamental views and the way you approach engagement with others!

Just two weeks ago, Matt Jones was released as an LDS bishop. How he came to be someone who might be called to that position includes a fun and twisting story. Beginning as somewhat of a precocious youth (an "idiot" in Matt's telling about this period, along with examples!), he didn't take Mormonism too seriously. But with goodly parents who knew how to guide without crushing his fun-loving nature, he eventually made it to a mission, which he loved, marriage to the wonderful Kristie Jones (whom everyone loves!), schooling, and then a successful business career. But soon enough, life brought forth stresses and disappointments, and certain nagging church questions he had as a missionary and genuinely thoughtful began to take center stage a bit more. He details some of these in this interview, but also shares an extremely powerful spiritual experience that left him unable to ever deny (or forget) that there is a powerful God who knows him intimately. You'll never guess what led to it! It's wonderful.

As the conversation continues, we learn about where he "was" in his faith journey when the call came for him to serve as the bishop of the Bothell Ward in Bothell, Washington, and how he approached his service there. (Hint: He was an amazing bishop who urged ward members to focus on the right things: love, kindness, trust, faith, God's desire to be in relationship with us, etc. rather than meeting troubles primarily through our minds or with fears about being judged harshly.) Toward the end of the conversation, Matt shares about another wonderful spiritual experience he had just recently.

All in all, this is a great, fun (and, at times, funny) and rich conversation with a truly delightful person. We know you'll enjoy spending time with Matt Jones in your ears! And we bet he'll find a way into your heart, as well. 

This episode arrives on the heels of the release of a marvelous short video, “Do Better, which features LGBT+ Latter-day Saints and allies sharing reflections and experiences from their Mormon upbringing and interactions with its culture. The video originated in the mind of heart of Lisa Scott, who, with assistance from a network of friends and volunteers, brought it forth into the world. It is already gathering many views and is being shared widely. The video is a vehicle for positive change in Mormon thinking and culture. 

Richard Ostler was recently released after serving as a bishop of a Utah Young Single Adult ward. Within his calling, Richard came to know and truly listen to the faith and goodness of young LGBT+ adults, including their intense pain and suffering arising in to some degree from Mormon teachings and cultural attitudes. He has now founded the organization “Listen, Learn, & Love,” which in its online presence serves as a resource for LGBT+ Mormons, and Richard also speaks frequently at events by invitation or via his own initiative. 

More than just the focus on Lisa’s video, Richard’s outreach, and LGBT+ issues, this episode also tries to encourage all of us to each find “our” passion--that thing (issue, insight, need) that our life has somehow been calling us to engage with, and to then act on that in whatever way we feel inspired to do. So many times we in Mormonism feel as if we need “permission” from a Church leader before acting purely from our own initiative. Our hope in this discussion is to emphasize and help empower every one of us to never be afraid to do good in the world, to act to open hearts and minds, and assist with difficult situations or circumstances ourselves. It can take any of many forms. Let’s do some good!

This is an encore presentation of a two-part Mormon Matters episode first recorded in March 2015. 

Of course, we all know that Mormonism is a "religion." But do we always think about it through the lenses of such a big and diverse category? Among those who are born into and/or otherwise live and experience the world primarily through the lenses of Mormonism, most often their focus is on our tradition's “truth claims” as well as the pathway it lays out for “salvation.” And for them, the LDS Church is most often defined in terms of the prophetically guided institution that sets forth its beliefs and practices, and authorizes participation in its sacred ordinances. But like every other religion, Mormonism is more than just these things. It is a key element in identity formation; it articulates core spiritual and ethical values and suggests, either formally or through Mormon cultural influences, how its members should think and act about key matters of the day. In general, it is the primary contributor to a worldview that provides its adherents a sense of orientation and direction in what can often feel like an overwhelmingly chaotic world.

In this two-part episode, religion scholars Laurie Maffly-Kipp and Doe Daughtrey, and classics scholar Margaret Toscano, join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon to discuss “religion” in a way that opens our eyes to these larger categories (myth, ritual, scripture, ecclesiastical structure, etc.) and the ways that religions influence lives, and to then discusses elements of Mormonism that these broad topic areas help illustrate in particularity. What can we learn and realize about Mormonism when it is seen through comparative lenses? How typical is Mormonism among other traditions in its historical and current-day wrestling with social and cultural issues such as gender, sexuality, race, scripture and sacred texts, women, and authority structures? Can we move from the "truth box" into brighter, richer, more transformative territory? And much more!

This is an encore presentation of a two-part Mormon Matters episode first recorded in March 2015. 

Of course, we all know that Mormonism is a "religion." But do we always think about it through the lenses of such a big and diverse category? Among those who are born into and/or otherwise live and experience the world primarily through the lenses of Mormonism, most often their focus is on our tradition's “truth claims” as well as the pathway it lays out for “salvation.” And for them, the LDS Church is most often defined in terms of the prophetically guided institution that sets forth its beliefs and practices, and authorizes participation in its sacred ordinances. But like every other religion, Mormonism is more than just these things. It is a key element in identity formation; it articulates core spiritual and ethical values and suggests, either formally or through Mormon cultural influences, how its members should think and act about key matters of the day. In general, it is the primary contributor to a worldview that provides its adherents a sense of orientation and direction in what can often feel like an overwhelmingly chaotic world.

In this two-part episode, religion scholars Laurie Maffly-Kipp and Doe Daughtrey, and classics scholar Margaret Toscano, join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon to discuss “religion” in a way that opens our eyes to these larger categories (myth, ritual, scripture, ecclesiastical structure, etc.) and the ways that religions influence lives, and to then discusses elements of Mormonism that these broad topic areas help illustrate in particularity. What can we learn and realize about Mormonism when it is seen through comparative lenses? How typical is Mormonism among other traditions in its historical and current-day wrestling with social and cultural issues such as gender, sexuality, race, scripture and sacred texts, women, and authority structures? Can we move from the "truth box" into brighter, richer, more transformative territory? And much more!

Most Mormon Matters listeners are, as consumers of LDS-related websites, blogs, podcasts, Reddits, Facebook groups, and other social media platforms, enmeshed in the world of “uncorrelated Mormonism.” Whatever is happening in any part of the Mormon world, most of us have ready access, not only to the news but also a great number of comments—many of them hastily made and most without attempts to present a balanced viewpoint. On any given day, we have at our disposal in these uncorrelated spaces (as well as in official church platforms) more information and opinions than anyone might possibly consume with any chance at enjoying the richness of the various items in the feast, which leaves us with the exasperated question, voiced by Stephen Carter in this podcast, “What do we do with all this?”

This episode centers on one of Mormonism’s most important clearinghouses for highlighting, amplifying, and steering us to good discussions of things related to the Restoration that began with Joseph Smith: Sunstone. In its magazine and symposiums, Sunstone brings together the voices of people from all over the Mormon spectrum to share “their” story, to offer chances for all of us to truly “meet” each other and to digest more slowly and with a much better signal-to-noise ratio things happening within wider Mormonism. There is certainly much content about the organization and its upcoming Salt Lake Sunstone symposium (July 25-28) in this discussion with Sunstone’s executive director Lindsay Hansen Park and publications director Stephen Carter, but it also features much broader reflections on the story and changes in emphases of Mormonism’s nearly 200-year history of discussions, especially in its uncorrelated sector. How have the questions changed through the years? What tasks were more important during other periods of Mormon history than what seems to be needed now?

Through listening to these thoughtful, articulate leaders in Mormon discussions, we are given explicit permission to locate ourselves “as ourselves,” as our own “threads in the Mormon tapestry” (the symposium’s theme this year). Lindsay and Stephen offer 10,000-foot views of Mormon discussions taking place “at the margins,” as well as share very personally about their attempts to find and be themselves in today’s wider Restoration world. And, yes, you’ll also hear specifics about what is coming soon to the Sunstone symposium and that will be available for you to read or listen to shortly after the event ends. If you are overwhelmed by all that is going on within the uncorrelated Mormon spaces you engage with, let Sunstone be an oasis for you—a place to stop, rest, and sample in slower, more personal ways, the ideas and writings of many who are wrestling, just like you, with “What do I do with” all this information?

Most Mormon Matters listeners are, as consumers of LDS-related websites, blogs, podcasts, Reddits, Facebook groups, and other social media platforms, enmeshed in the world of “uncorrelated Mormonism.” Whatever is happening in any part of the Mormon world, most of us have ready access, not only to the news but also a great number of comments—many of them hastily made and most without attempts to present a balanced viewpoint. On any given day, we have at our disposal in these uncorrelated spaces (as well as in official church platforms) more information and opinions than anyone might possibly consume with any chance at enjoying the richness of the various items in the feast, which leaves us with the exasperated question, voiced by Stephen Carter in this podcast, “What do we do with all this?”

This episode centers on one of Mormonism’s most important clearinghouses for highlighting, amplifying, and steering us to good discussions of things related to the Restoration that began with Joseph Smith: Sunstone. In its magazine and symposiums, Sunstone brings together the voices of people from all over the Mormon spectrum to share “their” story, to offer chances for all of us to truly “meet” each other and to digest more slowly and with a much better signal-to-noise ratio things happening within wider Mormonism. There is certainly much content about the organization and its upcoming Salt Lake Sunstone symposium (July 25-28) in this discussion with Sunstone’s executive director Lindsay Hansen Park and publications director Stephen Carter, but it also features much broader reflections on the story and changes in emphases of Mormonism’s nearly 200-year history of discussions, especially in its uncorrelated sector. How have the questions changed through the years? What tasks were more important during other periods of Mormon history than what seems to be needed now?

Through listening to these thoughtful, articulate leaders in Mormon discussions, we are given explicit permission to locate ourselves “as ourselves,” as our own “threads in the Mormon tapestry” (the symposium’s theme this year). Lindsay and Stephen offer 10,000-foot views of Mormon discussions taking place “at the margins,” as well as share very personally about their attempts to find and be themselves in today’s wider Restoration world. And, yes, you’ll also hear specifics about what is coming soon to the Sunstone symposium and that will be available for you to read or listen to shortly after the event ends. If you are overwhelmed by all that is going on within the uncorrelated Mormon spaces you engage with, let Sunstone be an oasis for you—a place to stop, rest, and sample in slower, more personal ways, the ideas and writings of many who are wrestling, just like you, with “What do I do with” all this information?

On July 2nd, a terrific new book was released by Oxford University Press: She Preached the Word: Women's Ordination in Modern America. Co-authored by Benjamin R. Knoll and Cammie Jo Bolin, it shares and analyzes the findings from new surveys, along with qualitative interviews, about how people in the U.S. and within specific congregations and traditions view women's ordination, and especially about women being the primary leader (pastor, rabbi, priest, etc.) within a congregation. The results are interesting, and in some cases very surprising. And though the book reports on social science studies and can't admonish, advise, or cheerlead for any particular stance or leadership structure, most Mormon Matters listeners, we believe, will be quite encouraged by the results.

This episode features the book's authors, Ben and Cammie Jo, in conversation with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, in a far-ranging discussion of the book, its origins, findings, and analyses. It speaks of many, many factors that influenced the data, ranging from views of scripture, political leanings, economic status, race, gender, education, and much more. One factor ends up standing above all others in influencing views. Please listen and find out what it is! And even though Mormonism is only mentioned a few times within the pages of the book, and only a small number of Latter-day Saints were interviewed, with each finding shared herein, Mormon listeners should be able to draw parallels and divergences with what is discussed, with either outcome becoming an impetus for more thinking and imagining. Part 2 of the discussion (Episode 493), focuses primarily on Mormonism and various aspects of its views of priesthood and leadership, along with its culture that is both conservative but also able to pivot and move quite effectively whenever a new direction is decided upon. These in dialogue with certain findings and social scientific theories yield rich veins for continued discussion.

On July 2nd, a terrific new book was released by Oxford University Press: She Preached the Word: Women's Ordination in Modern America. Co-authored by Benjamin R. Knoll and Cammie Jo Bolin, it shares and analyzes the findings from new surveys, along with qualitative interviews, about how people in the U.S. and within specific congregations and traditions view women's ordination, and especially about women being the primary leader (pastor, rabbi, priest, etc.) within a congregation. The results are interesting, and in some cases very surprising. And though the book reports on social science studies and can't admonish, advise, or cheerlead for any particular stance or leadership structure, most Mormon Matters listeners, we believe, will be quite encouraged by the results.

This episode features the book's authors, Ben and Cammie Jo, in conversation with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, in a far-ranging discussion of the book, its origins, findings, and analyses. It speaks of many, many factors that influenced the data, ranging from views of scripture, political leanings, economic status, race, gender, education, and much more. One factor ends up standing above all others in influencing views. Please listen and find out what it is! And even though Mormonism is only mentioned a few times within the pages of the book, and only a small number of Latter-day Saints were interviewed, with each finding shared herein, Mormon listeners should be able to draw parallels and divergences with what is discussed, with either outcome becoming an impetus for more thinking and imagining. Part 2 of the discussion (Episode 493), focuses primarily on Mormonism and various aspects of its views of priesthood and leadership, along with its culture that is both conservative but also able to pivot and move quite effectively whenever a new direction is decided upon. These in dialogue with certain findings and social scientific theories yield rich veins for continued discussion.

In recent years, Mormonism has been doing much better when talking about depression and mental health struggles, helping destigmatize them and encouraging its members to seek assistance. Elder Jeffrey R. Holland's October 2013 General Conference address, "Like a Broken Vessel" spoke candidly about these topics, and the church's mental health section at LDS.org/mentalhealth is likewise open-hearted about depression and mental health illnesses, and also teaches us about ways we can compassionately interact with those in our families, wards, and circle of contacts who grapple with them.

In non-official LDS circles, the LoveLoud Festival (now a month away from its second event) has raised awareness about the suicide crisis among Utah teens and young adults, especially those who identify as LGBT+. LoveLoud's founder, LDS rock star Dan Reynolds of the band Imagine Dragons, has just this past week been featured in a full-length documentary, Believer (began June 25th on HBO) about his coming to awareness about the struggles of LGBT Mormons, and his energetic work in conceiving and organizing the first festival. We are grateful for both of these great developments.

Just as with every medical issue, though, it's important to explore as fully as we can the literature and scientific research surrounding it. And in the case of depression and suicide, as well as several other mental health issues, the findings don't present as clean a picture as most of us have about the efficacy and advisability of even short-time use of anti-depressants, especially among teens and young adults, as well as about long-term benefits for most everyone. The predominant treatment program for depression today is drug therapy (and LDS literature suggests it is in step with this approach), but many researchers are asking if that should be the case. 

This episode features two important voices who are asking questions like this: Robert Whitaker, a celebrated journalist and author who focuses on science and medicine, and Jacob Hess, Ph.D., a mental health researcher and advocate for better discussions about topics about important questions such as "Should I begin taking anti-depressants?" Neither Bob nor Jared are anti- anti-depressants so much as pro- "informed consent." In this discussion, they overview much of the literature about and offer background into the paradigm shift that took place some thirty years ago when anti-depressant use began to soar, and they compare it with actual findings about both short- and long-term outcomes. They also share information about many factors that contribute to depression, anxiety, and several other mental health challenges and what research is showing about effective therapies that help with those either in combination with medication or without it. 

The story they tell is fascinating, as well as difficult to hear but also hopeful. We hope you will pay close attention to this episode and share it with those you know who could benefit from hearing a wider view on today's understanding of the causes of many  mental health struggles and prevailing treatment approaches.

The concept of "atonement" is powerful: being "at one" with God, others, and ourselves. But the panelists on this episode, Mark Crego and George Andrew Spriggs, along with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, find the way it is usually talked about in Mormon and wider Christian circles to leave something to be desired. Too often the Atonement is seen through the lenses of various theories about "how" Christ's death reconciled us—with different answers even to what it reconciled us with. The Atonement is discussed as an event. Sure, it's one with eternal significance, but very often it is treated like an act that healed a rift (between us and God, or us and moral law, or us and justice) or that cosmically did "something" in the universe that allows us mortals to overcome our destructive tendencies and sins, with our job being to then "take advantage of” it or "qualify" so it can or will become active in our lives here and now or, at least, for us come judgment day. 

But what would happen if atonement were thought about more as a concept than an event? Or even, perhaps, thought of as a powerful idea even without a Christian context? Can we allow the notion of peace and being "at one" with our highest self, others in our lives, or with whatever might be the Ultimate Reality in the universe call us into greater relationship, enabling a flourishing life with all instances infused with love? And if we go back to Christianity and the story and symbolism of Jesus Christ and the cross and how his mission was to draw all unto him (not “force,” but draw, attract, lead, counsel, coach) and the kind of relationality he experiences, can we re-enliven Atonement? Can we resurrect it in our lives?

This episode is long but always moving forward at a good pace. In it Mark and Dan propose various ideas and Andrew, the wonderful thinker and clarifier, reacts and pushes for greater clarification or offers where he finds the proposals lacking. In the mix of this, much is discussed, much laid out that typically escapes discussion. We think you'll very much enjoy this three-part podcast!

The concept of "atonement" is powerful: being "at one" with God, others, and ourselves. But the panelists on this episode, Mark Crego and George Andrew Spriggs, along with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, find the way it is usually talked about in Mormon and wider Christian circles to leave something to be desired. Too often the Atonement is seen through the lenses of various theories about "how" Christ's death reconciled us—with different answers even to what it reconciled us with. The Atonement is discussed as an event. Sure, it's one with eternal significance, but very often it is treated like an act that healed a rift (between us and God, or us and moral law, or us and justice) or that cosmically did "something" in the universe that allows us mortals to overcome our destructive tendencies and sins, with our job being to then "take advantage of” it or "qualify" so it can or will become active in our lives here and now or, at least, for us come judgment day. 

But what would happen if atonement were thought about more as a concept than an event? Or even, perhaps, thought of as a powerful idea even without a Christian context? Can we allow the notion of peace and being "at one" with our highest self, others in our lives, or with whatever might be the Ultimate Reality in the universe call us into greater relationship, enabling a flourishing life with all instances infused with love? And if we go back to Christianity and the story and symbolism of Jesus Christ and the cross and how his mission was to draw all unto him (not “force,” but draw, attract, lead, counsel, coach) and the kind of relationality he experiences, can we re-enliven Atonement? Can we resurrect it in our lives?

This episode is long but always moving forward at a good pace. In it Mark and Dan propose various ideas and Andrew, the wonderful thinker and clarifier, reacts and pushes for greater clarification or offers where he finds the proposals lacking. In the mix of this, much is discussed, much laid out that typically escapes discussion. We think you'll very much enjoy this three-part podcast!

The concept of "atonement" is powerful: being "at one" with God, others, and ourselves. But the panelists on this episode, Mark Crego and George Andrew Spriggs, along with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, find the way it is usually talked about in Mormon and wider Christian circles to leave something to be desired. Too often the Atonement is seen through the lenses of various theories about "how" Christ's death reconciled us—with different answers even to what it reconciled us with. The Atonement is discussed as an event. Sure, it's one with eternal significance, but very often it is treated like an act that healed a rift (between us and God, or us and moral law, or us and justice) or that cosmically did "something" in the universe that allows us mortals to overcome our destructive tendencies and sins, with our job being to then "take advantage of” it or "qualify" so it can or will become active in our lives here and now or, at least, for us come judgment day. 

But what would happen if atonement were thought about more as a concept than an event? Or even, perhaps, thought of as a powerful idea even without a Christian context? Can we allow the notion of peace and being "at one" with our highest self, others in our lives, or with whatever might be the Ultimate Reality in the universe call us into greater relationship, enabling a flourishing life with all instances infused with love? And if we go back to Christianity and the story and symbolism of Jesus Christ and the cross and how his mission was to draw all unto him (not “force,” but draw, attract, lead, counsel, coach) and the kind of relationality he experiences, can we re-enliven Atonement? Can we resurrect it in our lives?

This episode is long but always moving forward at a good pace. In it Mark and Dan propose various ideas and Andrew, the wonderful thinker and clarifier, reacts and pushes for greater clarification or offers where he finds the proposals lacking. In the mix of this, much is discussed, much laid out that typically escapes discussion. We think you'll very much enjoy this three-part podcast!

This episode wrestles with exclusivist claims in religion, including Mormonism, as well as in our psyches. How does the idea of chosenness, specialness, uniqueness, and being “right” or on the “true” path work in our minds and hearts in both positive and negative ways? Why do we want to cling to ideas that work to set us apart from others rather than unite us with the rest of humanity in struggling and wrestling with life's biggest questions? Why do so many of us focus on being "right" about the way things "really are" in the heavens? Does it make sense to skip the struggle of determining our own values and power in exchange for safety in some yet-unknown and indeterminate future?

Being "the one and only true church" has played a fascinating role in Mormonism and in the lives of its adherents. And because of the power of this idea, many of us struggle when we are presented with alternate views that challenge its exclusivist claims. Do we "dare" explore these other areas more? Do we answer this deep call within us to become our "own" person rather than remain safely in the Mormon (or whatever religion one associates with) current, moving steadily ahead toward goals we have been taught were certain to be achieved if we keep with the group? 

In this Mormon Matters discussion, two wonderful LDS therapists, Jennifer Finlayson-Fife and Lisa Tensmeyer Hansen, join host Dan Wotherspoon for a deep dive into the dynamics of exclusivism as they play out in Mormonism and in the deepest parts of ourselves. How can we trust ourselves to venture beyond the stories and assurances we've been given and not become lost? Is it a wrestle that all of us must eventually take on in order to be psychologically and mentally healthy? Are there ways that we are seeing Mormonism change with regard to exclusive truth claims that open up our Sunday and other LDS spaces for genuine exploration and wrestling rather than primarily being dedicated to shoring up truth claims? Finally, what good is the idea that we know the "Truth" anyway? How well does it serve us and our souls? Are there other types of searches that are far more important to embark on than seeking to "have all the answers"?

Every time a new temple is announced, especially when it is to be built in the developing world, it's not very long before discussions begin to arise about the priority the LDS Church puts on building temples. Soon after that, some will begin to ask about these (expensive) buildings and if that money used to build and operate them longterm might not be better put toward feeding people and alleviating poverty or seeking to end other social ills. And, finally, the question of tithing will inevitably then arise: Is tithing, as practiced in Mormonism, fair? Is it right to require people who live in dire (by most North American standards) circumstances to pay tithing—sometimes, it will be argued, meaning they will make the choice to be obedient to that law even if it means not eating as well or paying for medicine? 

In this episode, the wonderful Laurie Lee Hall and Jim Smithson join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a goodly wrestle with these questions. Without pre-conceived answers nor the thought that there is only one way to respond to these competing priorities, the two panelists share their experiences within the Church's Temple Department and its Research Division, respectively, as well as perspectives they gained through their extensive travels around the world on behalf of the church. Laurie Lee shares an overview of temple building in the past half-century and what she has gathered through the years as the factors that are considered before they are announced and as leaders determine their size and the costs of building and maintaining them, as well as improving and protecting the area immediately adjacent to them. Jim speaks to his experiences interviewing and interacting with Saints around the world as he spoke with them about various church programs and policies and how they affect their religious lives. And it all gets complicated and more personally affecting as Dan inserts aspects of the issues spoken of above. Do these international Saints, especially those in the developing world, share the same concerns that many here do about temple costs and how the law of tithing may affect them differently? Are we who might make these arguments projecting our feelings and sensibilities about the tragedies of their lives onto them? Is it proper to question, from our perspectives, Church priorities? Are their aspects of temple work and tithing that might lie beyond that which is quantifiable by counting dollars and cents? What good fruits can come into our lives as we wrestle in these areas?

Please listen and then share your ideas in the comments section!

Every time a new temple is announced, especially when it is to be built in the developing world, it's not very long before discussions begin to arise about the priority the LDS Church puts on building temples. Soon after that, some will begin to ask about these (expensive) buildings and if that money used to build and operate them longterm might not be better put toward feeding people and alleviating poverty or seeking to end other social ills. And, finally, the question of tithing will inevitably then arise: Is tithing, as practiced in Mormonism, fair? Is it right to require people who live in dire (by most North American standards) circumstances to pay tithing—sometimes, it will be argued, meaning they will make the choice to be obedient to that law even if it means not eating as well or paying for medicine? 

In this episode, the wonderful Laurie Lee Hall and Jim Smithson join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a goodly wrestle with these questions. Without pre-conceived answers nor the thought that there is only one way to respond to these competing priorities, the two panelists share their experiences within the Church's Temple Department and its Research Division, respectively, as well as perspectives they gained through their extensive travels around the world on behalf of the church. Laurie Lee shares an overview of temple building in the past half-century and what she has gathered through the years as the factors that are considered before they are announced and as leaders determine their size and the costs of building and maintaining them, as well as improving and protecting the area immediately adjacent to them. Jim speaks to his experiences interviewing and interacting with Saints around the world as he spoke with them about various church programs and policies and how they affect their religious lives. And it all gets complicated and more personally affecting as Dan inserts aspects of the issues spoken of above. Do these international Saints, especially those in the developing world, share the same concerns that many here do about temple costs and how the law of tithing may affect them differently? Are we who might make these arguments projecting our feelings and sensibilities about the tragedies of their lives onto them? Is it proper to question, from our perspectives, Church priorities? Are their aspects of temple work and tithing that might lie beyond that which is quantifiable by counting dollars and cents? What good fruits can come into our lives as we wrestle in these areas?

Please listen and then share your ideas in the comments section!

Were there an official calling within Mormonism of "Church and Culture Lampoonist" (and there should be!), Robert Kirby would be magnifying the heck out of it! For better than thirty years, including the past twenty-one as a columnist at the Salt Lake Tribune, he has held up an affectionate but also serious mirror (and shock collar) to Mormonism, its culture, and its excesses in Utah and other places in which it dominates, especially when its members take themselves too seriously. As an insider who loves his community even as it also at times drives him crazy, Kirby has been able to find a way to give voice to thoughts that so many of us members are thinking—though we are generally less hilarious and insightful than he is—and, in so doing, bless us tremendously. It is important that we see the folly in some of our ways, whether it's how we prioritize certain ideas or practices over others, or how we globalize our way of acting and thinking as the only way to "Mormon" correctly. His work helps us laugh even as we are also caught up short, allowing us to "let in" what we might not otherwise were it presented in a more solemn or preachy manner. And, as we chew on the wisdom of the priorities and ways of being embedded in his humorous and sometimes biting observations, we are better as people and a community.

In this episode, Kirby shares with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon many things about his life, from his upbringing within the church and the many challenges he's faced in his journey and the  changes he has undergone, to his thinking about Mormonism and his role within it. He also shares glimpses at his own spiritual world and the centrality of his marriage in his life and how relationships inform his thinking about what things are of most worth.

We know you'll enjoy this conversation! You'll be laughing one moment and your soul touched the next. Just like what should happen in our lives every day.

Here at Mormon Matters we will occasionally focus on the importance of sticking with (though often with changed forms) spiritual practices even while in the midst of shifting faith. Even when we might not be sure what we believe anymore, putting ourselves in some way in a position to stay connected with God (whoever or whatever that is, some would add) and our highest selves and desires is vital to our remaining in balance and not letting our minds and doubts completely run the show. 

In that spirit, we present this show and the introduction it gives to a recently discovered (at least for a general audience) practice from early and medieval Christianity that has surprising relevance for today's world and how we access information and get ideas for how we might live. (Hence the words in the subtitle to the episode, which comes from the introduction to the book about the practice we discuss herein.) Earlier this year, the book The Prayer Wheel: A Daily Guide to Renewing Your Faith with a Rediscovered Spiritual Practice was published (Convergent Books). Written by three friends—Jana Riess (who is well known to and beloved by the Mormon Matters audience), Patton Dodd, and David Van Biema—the book chronicles the discovery of a diagram that was bound into a thousand-year-old book containing the four Gospels. As the authors researched it and discovered similar (but less awesome--of course!) diagrams, they realized they had stumbled upon a prayer technology used within Christianity during the medieval period (and likely longer), but which had lost its relevance sometime following the invention of the printing press. Now it is being re-presented here at this very time when some say we are at the end of the printing press era, and it bears similarities to how we use apps and various digital and smartphone technologies today. It's a fascinating story and both it and the prayer wheel itself hold many interesting things to think about.

But most importantly, the wheel also a powerful tool for devotional prayer and assisting us in drawing closer to God and our own centers. We won't describe it here (the image accompanying this write-up on the Mormon Matters website shows the wheel with English translations of what was originally Latin), but we will say that for Mormon audiences, who typically stay away from fixed or rote prayers, this wheel (and the book's and this podcast's presentation of ways to use it) highlights a practice that is somewhere in-between fixed and freestyle praying. It is quite intriguing for anyone who is trying to deepen her or his devotional life through a contemplative practice. Within the conversation here, we also discuss other connections Mormons might make between it and early and present-day Christianity and Judaism.

We think you'll find the discussion in this episode delightful in its mix of personal journeying, intellectual fascination, and how the wheel has enhanced the authors' own faith lives. This will be a show that afterward you will likely say, "Wow, before I began listening, I had no clue that I'd be as interested in this topic as I am now!" 

We all have different temperaments, and there are many combinations of elements that affect our spiritual journeys—including how recently we’ve entered into a time of questioning our original assumptions about life, church, and our souls. Because of this diversity, a fairly common theme that arises in Mormon discussions is how it seems to some as if those who are making peace with Mormon life and its teachings and various elements of LDS culture that want to limit spiritual exploration must be doing everything possible to force new ideas into old containers, to redefine words and concepts in a way that renders them practically meaningless. In short, the critique is that those who claim there is roominess in Mormonism for active, engaged, and fulfilling spiritual lives must be engaged in mental and spiritual gymnastics, must be contorting themselves and jamming their ideas into very small spaces in order to stay in fellowship with the Church and its members. In addition, this critique is often coupled with a suggestion (most often implied but sometimes explicit) that they are deceiving themselves or are spending the energy they do to find a good fit out of fear or some other motive that is less than fully transparent to them.

Is this accurate? In some cases, sure. And in many, this may be a fairly accurate description of an early stage in a person’s journey. However, for most who have God- and Mormon-wrestled and emerged from the efforts expended in that kind of soul work, it has felt like anything but spiritual gymnastics/contortionism. It has felt like natural growth, very much akin to how they’ve deepened their grasp of things in other aspects of life in which they have moved from one place of understanding to another.

In order to illustrate this (and as an attempt to go in depth in order to illustrate this more complete reordering that has felt to them like very natural and worthy efforts), this episode features two wonderful and insightful panelists, Ian Thomson and Chris Kimball, in conversation with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon about these claims about people forcing a fit into a strict gospel message and culture, or nuancing “truth” and certain concepts so completely that they now actually don’t mean much of anything. All three of these discussion partners share elements of their own journey toward peace within the religion that nurtured them, even as they share how it certainly still tests their patience and forces them to face issues and attitudes that aren’t always enjoyable. The challenge this episode presents is for listeners to hear for themselves and decide if, indeed, these discussants are deceived about the reasons for their continued engagement and stand on very insubstantial ground in their thought and practices, or if they represent an attractive, a-bit-down-the-pathway position and worldview that has its own integrity and ability to foster peace of soul and a fulfilled life within an LDS context.

We all have different temperaments, and there are many combinations of elements that affect our spiritual journeys—including how recently we’ve entered into a time of questioning our original assumptions about life, church, and our souls. Because of this, a fairly common theme that arises in Mormon discussions is how it seems to some as if those who are making peace with Mormon life and its teachings and various elements of LDS culture that want to limit spiritual exploration must be doing everything possible to force new ideas into old containers, to redefine words and concepts in a way that almost completely changes their meaning. In short, the critique is that those who claim there is roominess in Mormonism for active, engaged, and fulfilling spiritual lives must be doing mental and spiritual gymnastics, must be contorting themselves and jamming their ideas into very small spaces. And this is often coupled with a suggestion (most often implied but sometimes explicit) that they are deceiving themselves or are spending the energy they do in this way because of fear or some other motive that is less than fully transparent.

But is this accurate? In some cases, sure. And in many, this may be a fairly accurate description of an early stage in their journey. For most who have God- and Mormon-wrestled and emerged from the efforts expended in that kind of soul work, however, it has felt like anything but spiritual gymnastics/contortionism. It has felt like natural growth, very much akin to the other aspects of life in which they have moved from one place of understanding to another.

In order to illustrate this (and as an attempt to go in depth in order to illustrate this more complete reordering that has felt to them like very worthy efforts), this episode features two wonderful and insightful panelists, Ian Thomson and Chris Kimball, in conversation with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon about these claims of forcing a fit into a strict gospel message and culture or nuancing “truth” and certain concepts so completely that they now actually don’t mean much of anything. All three share elements of their own journey toward peace within the religion that nurtured them, even as it certainly still tests their patience and forces them to learn things about love and relationships and goodness and compassion that aren’t always enjoyable in the short-term. The challenge this episode presents is for listeners to hear for themselves and decide if, indeed, these discussants are deceived about the reasons for their continued engagement and stand on very insubstantial ground in their thought and practices, or if they represent an attractive, a-bit-down-the-pathway position that has its own integrity and ability to create a fulfilled life and peace of soul.  

Most religions, cultures, and philosophies contain stories or theories about human evil and its origins. Some, including Mormonism, place a major portion of the blame for moral evil on a fallen angel, Lucifer, and his followers, who after being ousted from heaven become devils whose only desire is to thwart God’s plans and make loathsome humans as miserable as possible. What many Latter-day Saints don’t realize is how much their version of the war in heaven and the role of Lucifer, who becomes known as Satan, differs from that of wider Christianity, Islam, and the hints of the story found in the Bible. What are these other stories? What are the major differences between the narratives? How much has the story or emphases changed within Mormonism since its earlier periods? Does Mormon theology contain starting points and theological angles for viewing the Satan story powerfully as mythos rather than literal history? Has a shift already begun in how most Latter-day Saints view the sources of temptation they face in their own lives? What principles within Mormon theology might an LDS person draw on to create room for also honoring insights about the nature of evil and human propensities toward sin from eastern religions or certain psychological schools?

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, along with panelists Boyd Petersen, Charles Randall Paul, and Chelsea Shields Strayer explore all these questions, plus engage in a fascinating peek at how evil is seen in some non-Western cultures, including West Africa (where Chelsea has been doing anthropological fieldwork for the past decade) and its ideas of the very real powers that work in witchcraft, spirit possession, cursing, and other "occult" practices. Does Mormonism have theological explanations for these forces and the various ways they are manifest? Do West African Mormons still hold on to some of these ideas even after their conversion?

Please enjoy this fascinating discussion! It does not contain many “answers,” but the material it covers is very much worth wrestling with. Let us know what you think in the comments section below!

Most religions, cultures, and philosophies contain stories or theories about human evil and its origins. Some, including Mormonism, place a major portion of the blame for moral evil on a fallen angel, Lucifer, and his followers, who after being ousted from heaven become devils whose only desire is to thwart God’s plans and make loathsome humans as miserable as possible. What many Latter-day Saints don’t realize is how much their version of the war in heaven and the role of Lucifer, who becomes known as Satan, differs from that of wider Christianity, Islam, and the hints of the story found in the Bible. What are these other stories? What are the major differences between the narratives? How much has the story or emphases changed within Mormonism since its earlier periods? Does Mormon theology contain starting points and theological angles for viewing the Satan story powerfully as mythos rather than literal history? Has a shift already begun in how most Latter-day Saints view the sources of temptation they face in their own lives? What principles within Mormon theology might an LDS person draw on to create room for also honoring insights about the nature of evil and human propensities toward sin from eastern religions or certain psychological schools?

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, along with panelists Boyd Petersen, Charles Randall Paul, and Chelsea Shields Strayer explore all these questions, plus engage in a fascinating peek at how evil is seen in some non-Western cultures, including West Africa (where Chelsea has been doing anthropological fieldwork for the past decade) and its ideas of the very real powers that work in witchcraft, spirit possession, cursing, and other "occult" practices. Does Mormonism have theological explanations for these forces and the various ways they are manifest? Do West African Mormons still hold on to some of these ideas even after their conversion?

Please enjoy this fascinating discussion! It does not contain many “answers,” but the material it covers is very much worth wrestling with. Let us know what you think in the comments section below!

This episode begins with a description of occasions in which one of our guests expresses feelings of anger over something only to be told one of two things (or both): (1) Be careful, as Satan is behind contention and will use your anger to lead you astray; and (2) We should only focus on positive thoughts and emotions, so count your blessings and these negative feelings will disappear. Many of you can relate to this, as these two responses are quite typical. Mormons generally do not like to talk about things like anger or sadness or loneliness or feelings of betrayal--and certainly not at church!

We are thrilled to have three great guests on this show discussing ways we can improve our understanding and discussions about anger: Cynthia Winward, Jordan Harmon, and Lisa Butterworth. In a lively and insightful conversation, the panelists speak about ways Latter-day Saint discussions often confuse the basic emotion of anger with ways that sometimes people will act out their anger--rage, intimidation, destructiveness, etc. They speak of the impossibility of fully suppressing anger and the negative consequences that follow from imagining one can and then trying to do so. They cover cultural views of anger with regards to men versus women feeling and expressing this emotion. They speak directly about way that ideas about Satan and his influence colors much Mormon discourse about anger. Are there alternative (read: better) ways to understanding the reasons we feel angry? They offer fundamental insights into not only anger but all basic emotions and the ways they can serve us positively (even the ones that are no fun to experience). The panel then shares possible ways to improve our discussions of anger at church. Following the end of the panel's conversation, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon shares a few thoughts about the role of anger as a featured emotion in the early aspect of many people's faith journey.

This episode begins with a description of occasions in which one of our guests expresses feelings of anger over something only to be told one of two things (or both): (1) Be careful, as Satan is behind contention and will use your anger to lead you astray; and (2) We should only focus on positive thoughts and emotions, so count your blessings and these negative feelings will disappear. Many of you can relate to this, as these two responses are quite typical. Mormons generally do not like to talk about things like anger or sadness or loneliness or feelings of betrayal--and certainly not at church!

We are thrilled to have three great guests on this show discussing ways we can improve our understanding and discussions about anger: Cynthia Winward, Jordan Harmon, and Lisa Butterworth. In a lively and insightful conversation, the panelists speak about ways Latter-day Saint discussions often confuse the basic emotion of anger with ways that sometimes people will act out their anger--rage, intimidation, destructiveness, etc. They speak of the impossibility of fully suppressing anger and the negative consequences that follow from imagining one can and then trying to do so. They cover cultural views of anger with regards to men versus women feeling and expressing this emotion. They speak directly about way that ideas about Satan and his influence colors much Mormon discourse about anger. Are there alternative (read: better) ways to understanding the reasons we feel angry? They offer fundamental insights into not only anger but all basic emotions and the ways they can serve us positively (even the ones that are no fun to experience). The panel then shares possible ways to improve our discussions of anger at church. Following the end of the panel's conversation, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon shares a few thoughts about the role of anger as a featured emotion in the early aspect of many people's faith journey.

Dr. Julie de Azevedo Hanks has over the past decade-plus become a leading voice in mental health, marriage and family, women's issues, and faith journey circles. As a therapist and clinician, she has worked with many people, most of them Latter-day Saints, and now supervises some fifteen other therapists. She is an author of two books, The Burnout Cure: An Emotional Survival Guide for Overwhelmed Women and The Assertiveness Guide: How to Communicate Your Needs, Set Healthy Boundaries, and Transform Your Relationships. She is a go-to person for many members of the media when they want to talk with someone about Mormon and/or women's issues, including very recently being featured many, many times in stories written in the wake of the MTC sexual abuse scandal and how it has been addressed by the LDS Church and within the community. But her earliest steps into a spotlight came through her musical gifts and a songwriter and singer, a career that led to many songs and albums, and that garnered her many awards in LDS and faith-based music circles. Julie seems to have led a charmed life, built always for a public life.

But, like all of us, life has not been without its challenges. She has faced heartbreak and sadness, loss of a sense of her own place within the universe and God's plan, difficulties navigating career and family and church and all it's pre-prescribed roles for women, and much more. All of these, however, have been essential in her becoming such an effective therapist and insightful and sought-after teacher and speaker. In this in-depth interview about her life and careers, and her family and church lives, as well, Julie allows us a glimpse into her own journey with faith and Mormonism and how, through many difficulties, she has come to the grounding she has found—a sense of calling to this particular life among these particular people. As you listen, I know that you'll be moved by her story, her emotion, her courage, and her emergence as a healer extraordinaire.

The April 2018 General Conference confirmed a trend that some have noticed in recent years that, as they speak about various policies, practices, and teachings, Church leaders have been using the terms "revelation" and "the will of the Lord" more often than they had in the past century or more. Why might that be? Are instances of powerful revelation occurring more often, or with greater intensity than before--i.e., as some would say, the Lord truly is "hastening His work" and therefore needs to convey things with a greater sense of urgency? Is it simply a trend that has caught on, or merely greater comfort with terms like these that has made Presidents Nelson and Oaks and various apostles use them more often? Are Church leaders expanding their view of what rises to the status of "revelation" versus "inspiration," or what it means to know "the Lord's will" versus having the Spirit "confirm" something to them? And so forth?

It's an interesting observation, and in this episode, frequent guest Mark Crego shares evidence for this trend and poses questions like this, while Mormon Awakenings podcast host Jack Naneek and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon ask for clarifications and react to what he offers. If we are seeing a genuine trend emerging, what good benefits can follow from this sort of increased rhetorical punch? What cautions might we want to become alerted to? And in all things, how might we be vigilant in exercising our own rights to personal revelation and our role as church members in offering a check and balance to those who may be taking cues from this increased usage to warn or try to control others in ways that violate the principles of effective spiritual leadership laid out in D&C 121?

Please listen in and then share your ideas on these subjects in the comments section!

The April 2018 General Conference just closed. It was a monumental one, with many interesting features and announcements. From the Solemn Assembly that it led off with in which all church members, quorum by quorum and group by group had the chance to sustain Russell M. Nelson as the new prophet (and including a wonderful change in the order in which the groups sustained him), to the the calling of two new apostles that each represented a shift in the Quorum of the Twelve toward greater ethnic diversity, to the announcement of major changes in two long-standing practices (how Melchizedek Priesthood quorums meet, and to Visiting and Home Teaching), this was an action-packed and fascinating conference.

In this episode, Matt Jones and Sara Lake join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in offering their reactions to all that took place, as well as presenting ideas they have heard from others. It is a terrific, lively, spirit-and humor-filled conversation.

Listen in! Then please share your reactions to conference and/or this conversation in the comments section!

The April 2018 General Conference just closed. It was a monumental one, with many interesting features and announcements. From the Solemn Assembly that it led off with in which all church members, quorum by quorum and group by group had the chance to sustain Russell M. Nelson as the new prophet (and including a wonderful change in the order in which the groups sustained him), to the the calling of two new apostles that each represented a shift in the Quorum of the Twelve toward greater ethnic diversity, to the announcement of major changes in two long-standing practices (how Melchizedek Priesthood quorums meet, and to Visiting and Home Teaching), this was an action-packed and fascinating conference.

In this episode, Matt Jones and Sara Lake join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in offering their reactions to all that took place, as well as presenting ideas they have heard from others. It is a terrific, lively, spirit-and humor-filled conversation.

Listen in! Then please share your reactions to conference and/or this conversation in the comments section!

Within the past ten days, Mormonism has been rocked by a recoding and transcript released through MormonLeaks that depicts the confessions of a former president of the Missionary Training Center in Provo, Utah—Joseph Bishop—about his improper sexual behavior with at least two sister missionaries, including the one who in an interview with Bishop confronted him about his attempting to rape her. This episode, featuring the wonderful panelists Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, Katie Langston, and Judy Dushku, reflects on this story and the developments that have unfolded since it broke, including the LDS Church's Newsroom responses to it—responses that many have criticized for their wrong-spiritedness and for actually causing additional harm and trauma for many members of the church community, especially those who have been victims of sexual abuse or who have had any experiences in which the difficult claims they have made have not been believed or have been ignored, leading to no action taken against perpetrators. Host Dan Wotherspoon and the panel in no way offer quarter for the tremendous evils depicted in this story and its aftermath, but they also consider issues of how this public scandal and shaming being felt by leaders who failed these sisters in this and other cases might lead to positive changes in church policies regarding one-on-one interviews behind closed doors, and in many other areas. In fact, later in the evening this episode was recorded, the church indeed did release new guidelines for bishopric and stake presidency interviews.

Finally, the four of them consider these scandals and their effects on the spiritual lives of Latter-day Saints, particularly on those who had already been struggling with aspects of the church and wondering if it is wise for them to continue to associate with it. How do the panelists deal with news like this and other disturbing revelations about church and the human failings of those in key leadership positions? Are they able to separate in their minds and souls such things from their own deeply held spiritual convictions? And if so, how?

This two-part episode is a great discussion, full of compassion, insight, and hopefulness. Please download and listen to both sections!

NOTE: As this is released, it is being rated "explicit" only as a precaution due to the subject matter being discussed, as well as two instances of swearing (not any of the "big" ones, we promise!) and an anatomical term and description that isn't one that many Mormons are used to hearing or discussing.

Within the past ten days, Mormonism has been rocked by a recoding and transcript released through MormonLeaks that depicts the confessions of a former president of the Missionary Training Center in Provo, Utah—Joseph Bishop—about his improper sexual behavior with at least two sister missionaries, including the one who in an interview with Bishop confronted him about his attempting to rape her. This episode, featuring the wonderful panelists Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, Katie Langston, and Judy Dushku, reflects on this story and the developments that have unfolded since it broke, including the LDS Church's Newsroom responses to it—responses that many have criticized for their wrong-spiritedness and for actually causing additional harm and trauma for many members of the church community, especially those who have been victims of sexual abuse or who have had any experiences in which the difficult claims they have made have not been believed or have been ignored, leading to no action taken against perpetrators. Host Dan Wotherspoon and the panel in no way offer quarter for the tremendous evils depicted in this story and its aftermath, but they also consider issues of how this public scandal and shaming being felt by leaders who failed these sisters in this and other cases might lead to positive changes in church policies regarding one-on-one interviews behind closed doors, and in many other areas. In fact, later in the evening this episode was recorded, the church indeed did release new guidelines for bishopric and stake presidency interviews.

Finally, the four of them consider these scandals and their effects on the spiritual lives of Latter-day Saints, particularly on those who had already been struggling with aspects of the church and wondering if it is wise for them to continue to associate with it. How do the panelists deal with news like this and other disturbing revelations about church and the human failings of those in key leadership positions? Are they able to separate in their minds and souls such things from their own deeply held spiritual convictions? And if so, how?

This two-part episode is a great discussion, full of compassion, insight, and hopefulness. Please download and listen to both sections!

NOTE: As this is released, it is being rated "explicit" only as a precaution due to the subject matter being discussed, as well as two instances of swearing (not any of the "big" ones, we promise!) and an anatomical term and description that isn't one that many Mormons are used to hearing or discussing.

This very short episode features several announcements about an upcoming Mormon Matters one-day workshop that Dan Wotherspoon and Jana Spangler will be leading, as well as gives dates and information about the two MM retreats planned for this year. It also contains a reminder about the Parenting workshop in two weeks in Salt Lake City that will be led by Terri O'Fallon and Kim Barta. Before getting into all of that, however, Dan highlights and offers reminders of Mormon Matters resources related to Holy Week, Easter, and Mormonism's upcoming April General Conference.

Understanding human development—its tremendous scope, typical progressions, and reasons for its slowdowns or ways various forms of harm can hinder our growth—­­has many benefits. Because we focus so much on faith development here on Mormon Matters, one area that we don’t often discuss is how insights from developmental research and hands-on work with families can assist us in parenting our children. And, as one of the guests in this episode notes, it can even help us be able to “re-parent” ourselves and heal wounds from our own growing years.

In this episode, we are very blessed to have two prominent developmental theorists and teachers—Terri O’Fallon and Kim Barta— give generously of their time and insights in a discussion of development in general, as well as the ways it can serve us well in parenting. How can it unlock puzzles in better understanding our children and their needs, as well as our own places of brokenness? Do we understand that we all have our own preferred style of parenting? Is it always the best style for a given moment, child, or issue? How might two parents with different approaches come to agree upon in raising a child? And much more!

Please join us for this wonderful episode! Terri and Kim will also be in Salt Lake City to teach a three-day workshop on April 12th–14th. Learn more about that event and if it, or other courses they teach, might be just what you really need at this moment! 

Many long-time Mormon Matters listeners will recognize the name Charles Randall Paul (or, as host Dan Wotherspoon calls him 90 percent of the time, “Randy" Paul). He has been a wonderful and engaged panelist on various episodes that have explored topics in which he is fluent, but most often references to him and his thinking are more personal than that, as Randy is the friend who first became a mentor and lively discussion partner of Dan's when he was in his first year or so of deep questioning about Mormon teachings, scripture, and claims, and, most intently, if he could ever find a true "home" in Mormonism again now that he had begun to see its narratives and theological tenets in much more complicated ways. Randy was that pivotal person who came into Dan's life at this time and offered him a glimpse at the kind of animated and questing spiritual life of someone who was also enjoying his associations in his ward and other Mormon circles. Their friendship and collaborations on various projects have now been going on for 29 years. Hence, Dan has decided it’s time he took the opportunity to really offer Mormon Matters listeners a fuller dose of Charles Randall Paul and a chance for them to sense for themselves why he served Dan so well by modeling for him a kind of spirituality that might one day, if he kept leaning into the complexity, might unfold within him, too.

At a time in many Mormon "faith undergoing challenges" discussions when much of the focus is on the problems Mormonism has with certain claims (if taken literally) and the ways it has told its story, and when many conversations are caught up in endless loops that involve listing troubling issues and how Mormon apologetics fails to offer satisfying responses, or when they focus on how certain LDS voices that are gaining traction don't seem to be concerned that the "versions" of Mormonism or the Gospel of Jesus Christ that they share are not actually what is instantiated in Mormon wards and manuals (nor very often put forth in General Conference addresses), this Mormon Matters episode reverses the trend by featuring a conversation between two old friends who, in many ways, live and engage in a kind of "post-apologetic" Mormonism. It explores what it is in Mormonism that offers them the "roominess" they enjoy? What gives them hope for the future? What does it feel like to have found a genuine peace even in the midst of difficult dynamics and tensions at work in the LDS church and their local communities?  Perhaps the biggest gift that Randy gives in this conversation is sharing with us how he came to be who he is (in the world and in relation to Mormonism), how he came to hold the views he does and why he is willing to keep following certain hunches about God and humans and the experiment of mortality to see what additional treasures might be there.

Part 1 focuses on Randy's upbringing, temperament, and certain experiences that marked new insights or offered him greater confidence. In these tellings, it also discusses many Mormon ideas, practices, and pressures.

Part 2 is a more focused examination of what it truly means to be "at peace" in oneself and with things that are external to you. (Hint: It absolutely doesn't mean one is living a tensionless existence!) It also explores some of the social and psychological dynamics of "intra-religious" conflict, and why disagreements within religious communities can be so difficult to navigate. He offers great insights that are relevant at the larger, group level, but which can also transfer into our more personal relationships with those whom we find ourselves at odds with (at least for now!)

Many long-time Mormon Matters listeners will recognize the name Charles Randall Paul (or, as host Dan Wotherspoon calls him 90 percent of the time, “Randy" Paul). He has been a wonderful and engaged panelist on various episodes that have explored topics in which he is fluent, but most often references to him and his thinking are more personal than that, as Randy is the friend who first became a mentor and lively discussion partner of Dan's when he was in his first year or so of deep questioning about Mormon teachings, scripture, and claims, and, most intently, if he could ever find a true "home" in Mormonism again now that he had begun to see its narratives and theological tenets in much more complicated ways. Randy was that pivotal person who came into Dan's life at this time and offered him a glimpse at the kind of animated and questing spiritual life of someone who was also enjoying his associations in his ward and other Mormon circles. Their friendship and collaborations on various projects have now been going on for 29 years. Hence, Dan has decided it’s time he took the opportunity to really offer Mormon Matters listeners a fuller dose of Charles Randall Paul and a chance for them to sense for themselves why he served Dan so well by modeling for him a kind of spirituality that might one day, if he kept leaning into the complexity, might unfold within him, too.

At a time in many Mormon "faith undergoing challenges" discussions when much of the focus is on the problems Mormonism has with certain claims (if taken literally) and the ways it has told its story, and when many conversations are caught up in endless loops that involve listing troubling issues and how Mormon apologetics fails to offer satisfying responses, or when they focus on how certain LDS voices that are gaining traction don't seem to be concerned that the "versions" of Mormonism or the Gospel of Jesus Christ that they share are not actually what is instantiated in Mormon wards and manuals (nor very often put forth in General Conference addresses), this Mormon Matters episode reverses the trend by featuring a conversation between two old friends who, in many ways, live and engage in a kind of "post-apologetic" Mormonism. It explores what it is in Mormonism that offers them the "roominess" they enjoy? What gives them hope for the future? What does it feel like to have found a genuine peace even in the midst of difficult dynamics and tensions at work in the LDS church and their local communities?  Perhaps the biggest gift that Randy gives in this conversation is sharing with us how he came to be who he is (in the world and in relation to Mormonism), how he came to hold the views he does and why he is willing to keep following certain hunches about God and humans and the experiment of mortality to see what additional treasures might be there.

Part 1 focuses on Randy's upbringing, temperament, and certain experiences that marked new insights or offered him greater confidence. In these tellings, it also discusses many Mormon ideas, practices, and pressures.

Part 2 is a more focused examination of what it truly means to be "at peace" in oneself and with things that are external to you. (Hint: It absolutely doesn't mean one is living a tensionless existence!) It also explores some of the social and psychological dynamics of "intra-religious" conflict, and why discussions and disagreements within religious communities can be so difficult to navigate. He offers great insights that are relevant at the larger, group level, but which can also transfer into our more personal relationships with those whom we find ourselves at odds with (at least for now!)

Very few of us give deep consideration to the nature of scripture and how it should be read and understood. We grow up (or come to it during a conversion process) primarily with the idea that these are sacred texts that are inspired in a different way than any other writings, that God has gotten involved in their production to a special degree so that there is a high degree of reliability in what they they say. We have favorite ones, or others that we like because they sing to our hearts more than the rest. We enter into a religion and culture that already has a long history of interpretive readings of many scriptural passages and stories, and unless something really jars or fails to sit well with us, we hardly ever dive into interpretations that other traditions favor, and even less often do we look into the original languages in which the scriptures were written to see if the English (or whatever language we speak and read) misses certain things present to those native to that language. In short, while we may not be lazy in following the urging of leaders and teachers to read our scriptures, we are generally pretty lazy when it comes to thinking about scripture in general, and certain (sometimes troubling) passages in particular.

In this episode, the first of several we hope to record and release in a series, we examine to some degree scripture as a whole, but then do deep dives into certain verses and passages that are often misread and misunderstood (or under-understood: they are far richer than we imagined!). With Mark Crego and Margaret Toscano as guides, along with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, the discussions here focus on several scriptures familiar to Latter-day Saints (and some to other Christians, as well), and examine them from many different angles, each of them leading to richer, deeper understandings of the passages themselves, but also the ideas underlying them. The panel was surprised to discover how all of the ones they had chosen to talk about in this first episode ultimately converged into a wonderful theme: understanding better the nature of the love of God.

Hear for yourself how they get to that topic every time, even as they are discussing scriptures that don’t on the surface or at least in LDS interpretive schemas usually center on the love of God. The scriptures talked about directly in this discussion are:

John 5:39, “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.”

D&C 82:10, “I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.”

Matthew 5:48, “Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father, which is in heaven is perfect.”

Timothy 3:16, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

Plus tie-ins to many other scriptural passages.

Very few of us give deep consideration to the nature of scripture and how it should be read and understood. We grow up (or come to it during a conversion process) primarily with the idea that these are sacred texts that are inspired in a different way than any other writings, that God has gotten involved in their production to a special degree so that there is a high degree of reliability in what they they say. We have favorite ones, or others that we like because they sing to our hearts more than the rest. We enter into a religion and culture that already has a long history of interpretive readings of many scriptural passages and stories, and unless something really jars or fails to sit well with us, we hardly ever dive into interpretations that other traditions favor, and even less often do we look into the original languages in which the scriptures were written to see if the English (or whatever language we speak and read) misses certain things present to those native to that language. In short, while we may not be lazy in following the urging of leaders and teachers to read our scriptures, we are generally pretty lazy when it comes to thinking about scripture in general, and certain (sometimes troubling) passages in particular.

In this episode, the first of several we hope to record and release in a series, we examine to some degree scripture as a whole, but then do deep dives into certain verses and passages that are often misread and misunderstood (or under-understood: they are far richer than we imagined!). With Mark Crego and Margaret Toscano as guides, along with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, the discussions here focus on several scriptures familiar to Latter-day Saints (and some to other Christians, as well), and examine them from many different angles, each of them leading to richer, deeper understandings of the passages themselves, but also the ideas underlying them. The panel was surprised to discover how all of the ones they had chosen to talk about in this first episode ultimately converged into a wonderful theme: understanding better the nature of the love of God.

Hear for yourself how they get to that topic every time, even as they are discussing scriptures that don’t on the surface or at least in LDS interpretive schemas usually center on the love of God. The scriptures talked about directly in this discussion are:

John 5:39, “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.”

D&C 82:10, “I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.”

Matthew 5:48, “Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father, which is in heaven is perfect.”

Timothy 3:16, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

Plus tie-ins to many other scriptural passages.

Issues surrounding sexual, physical, and emotional harassment and abuse, or persons not feeling safe in certain institutional environments, have achieved fresh attention in the past several months through the bravery of women and others sharing their stories. Neither the White House nor Mormonism has been exempt from new attention to these ugly accusations, as former staff secretary Rob Porter, a Latter-day Saint, was forced to resign over claims of emotional and physical abuse leveled by his two ex-wives. Tying Mormonism into this arena even further, each stated that they had counseled with their Mormon bishops about Porter's treatment of them in their marriage and received less-than-helpful counsel. They didn't feel safe and only after a while did one of the women's bishop encourage her to file for a temporary retraining order against Porter.

Issues surrounding sexual, physical, and emotional harassment and abuse, or of persons not feeling safe in certain institutional environments, have received fresh attention in the past several months because of the bravery of women and others sharing their stories, leading to protests and the rise of several movements designed to educate about and mitigate future harm. Neither the United States government nor Mormonism has been exempt from new attention to these ugly accusations, as former White House staff secretary Rob Porter, a Latter-day Saint, was forced to resign over claims by his two ex-wives that he emotionally and physically abused the. Tying Mormonism into this arena even deeper, each stated that she had counseled with her Mormon bishop about Porter's treatment of her in their marriage and received less-than-helpful counsel. They didn't feel safe, and yet only after a while did one of the women's bishop encourage her to file for a temporary retraining order against Porter.

These issues of harassment, intimidation, and abuse are pervasive, with Mormonism being no exception. And stories and examples of Latter-day Saints reporting abuse and working to influence structural changes in Church policies and procedures are getting increasing attention. Mormonism puts bishops and other leaders in closed-door rooms with children, teens, and adults, girls and boys, women and men. It instructs them to interview members for various reasons: do they meet requirements (spiritual and moral) for participation in ordinances, are they worthy to receive certain advancements or callings, and more. Members are also encouraged to seek out these leaders when they want to talk about troubling situations in their lives, ranging from spiritual malaise or crisis, to interpersonal differences with others, to issues in family life, to feeling a need to confess and repent of certain behaviors/sins they may have fallen into. All of these types of interaction have the potential to become very personal in nature. And there are many accounts in which such personal situations have gone badly. At times leaders pry and ask about details that go beyond what they are instructed to do, resulting in the interview and counseling situations to move into unhelpful and potentially quite harmful areas. The structure of these meetings is ripe for trouble, and it often is found. What can we as Latter-day Saints do to mitigate against these problems and the harm that can follow from them? What can the church do, structurally and via training of leaders and members, to help lessen the chances for damaging interactions? 

In this episode, three engaged, informed, and experienced Latter-day Saints—Julie de Azevedo Hanks, Ronda Callister, and Tim Birt—join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a discussion of the larger issues surrounding abuse and its prevalence, the systemic and personal causes that often feed into its occurrences, and, most of all, what we as individuals, parents, teachers, leaders, and church members can do to become informed and more alert to situations before or very early on as they begin to go wrong. This issue must come into our consciousness more than it ever has before. How can we be proactive in keeping ourselves and others, as well as the institution of the LDS Church, safe from these dangers and the harm they bring about?

Listen in! Take notes! There is much in this episode that will be helpful for you as you accept responsibility to be change agents in your own lives and within the structures and practices of the church.

James and Judith McConkie have taken a deep dive into something relatively few Mormon scholars and teachers have researched: the historical Jesus. Latter-day Saints have been doing scripture studies for years, and are in the past few decades beginning to contribute their own studies to the growing body of work on the Bible, but only a handful have attempted to dive into the vast literature on the subject of just who Jesus of Nazareth was in his time and setting, studies that seek to understand his life and teachings in the context of his ministry in what is now Palestine and among a colonized people ruled from Rome through the cooperation of many Jewish leaders. One result of their many years of study to discover for themselves and, initially, their family, is a new book, Whom Say Ye That I Am?: Lessons from the Jesus of Nazareth (Greg Kofford Books, 2018).

In this episode, the McConkies join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a discussion of the book, literature on Jesus within Mormonism, discoveries they made that surprised or inspired them, and much more. Specifically, they focus on several areas discussed within the work: Jesus and his interactions with women and (with and about) family, his teachings and views on suffering in this world, the systematic injustice during his time and teachings about the "kingdom of God" he was attempting to usher into being, and finally discipleship and covenanting. Be warned: This is a terrific discussion that is sure to tease you into buying this book and many others mentioned herein! This is fascinating literature and a rich and wonderful area to dive into ourselves, one that yields many good dividends for our own spiritual walks.

James and Judith McConkie have taken a deep dive into something relatively few Mormon scholars and teachers have researched: the historical Jesus. Latter-day Saints have been doing scripture studies for years, and are in the past few decades beginning to contribute their own studies to the growing body of work on the Bible, but only a handful have attempted to dive into the vast literature on the subject of just who Jesus of Nazareth was in his time and setting, studies that seek to understand his life and teachings in the context of his ministry in what is now Palestine and among a colonized people ruled from Rome through the cooperation of many Jewish leaders. One result of their many years of study to discover for themselves and, initially, their family, is a new book, Whom Say Ye That I Am?: Lessons from the Jesus of Nazareth (Greg Kofford Books, 2018).

In this episode, the McConkies join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a discussion of the book, literature on Jesus within Mormonism, discoveries they made that surprised or inspired them, and much more. Specifically, they focus on several areas discussed within the work: Jesus and his interactions with women and (with and about) family, his teachings and views on suffering in this world, the systematic injustice during his time and teachings about the "kingdom of God" he was attempting to usher into being, and finally discipleship and covenanting. Be warned: This is a terrific discussion that is sure to tease you into buying this book and many others mentioned herein! This is fascinating literature and a rich and wonderful area to dive into ourselves, one that yields many good dividends for our own spiritual walks.

These episodes are encore releases of seven different Mormon Matters podcast show from the last time the LDS Sunday School Gospel Doctrine curriculum covered the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. We're late in putting these in front of you again. So sorry, but better late than never? I hope you'll feel so!

These releases consist of an overview episode about teaching this text within the church, and features Jana Riess, Philip Barlow, and Carrie Mills.

The others are a group of six different episodes (some multi-part) with panelists who we came to call "The Genesis Team." In them, David Bokovoy, Brian Hauglid, and Father Tom Roberts take us through in depth discussions of the key stories in the first 25 chapters of Genesis: the creation, flood, tower of Babel, Abraham, Sodom and Gomorrah, Binding of Isaac, and the saga of Isaac, Rebekah, Esau, and the transformation of Jacob. 

Whether you're a Gospel Doctrine teacher, active class participant, or simply an interested reader hoping for more insight into this most interesting and mischaracterized set of scriptures, this series is a great resource! Enjoy them (maybe it will be again)!

These episodes are encore releases of seven different Mormon Matters podcast show from the last time the LDS Sunday School Gospel Doctrine curriculum covered the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. We're late in putting these in front of you again. So sorry, but better late than never? I hope you'll feel so!

These releases consist of an overview episode about teaching this text within the church, and features Jana Riess, Philip Barlow, and Carrie Mills.

The others are a group of six different episodes (some multi-part) with panelists who we came to call "The Genesis Team." In them, David Bokovoy, Brian Hauglid, and Father Tom Roberts take us through in depth discussions of the key stories in the first 25 chapters of Genesis: the creation, flood, tower of Babel, Abraham, Sodom and Gomorrah, Binding of Isaac, and the saga of Isaac, Rebekah, Esau, and the transformation of Jacob. 

Whether you're a Gospel Doctrine teacher, active class participant, or simply an interested reader hoping for more insight into this most interesting and mischaracterized set of scriptures, this series is a great resource! Enjoy them (maybe it will be again)!

These episodes are encore releases of seven different Mormon Matters podcast show from the last time the LDS Sunday School Gospel Doctrine curriculum covered the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. We're late in putting these in front of you again. So sorry, but better late than never? I hope you'll feel so!

These releases consist of an overview episode about teaching this text within the church, and features Jana Riess, Philip Barlow, and Carrie Mills.

The others are a group of six different episodes (some multi-part) with panelists who we came to call "The Genesis Team." In them, David Bokovoy, Brian Hauglid, and Father Tom Roberts take us through in depth discussions of the key stories in the first 25 chapters of Genesis: the creation, flood, tower of Babel, Abraham, Sodom and Gomorrah, Binding of Isaac, and the saga of Isaac, Rebekah, Esau, and the transformation of Jacob. 

Whether you're a Gospel Doctrine teacher, active class participant, or simply an interested reader hoping for more insight into this most interesting and mischaracterized set of scriptures, this series is a great resource! Enjoy them (maybe it will be again)!

These episodes are encore releases of seven different Mormon Matters podcast show from the last time the LDS Sunday School Gospel Doctrine curriculum covered the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. We're late in putting these in front of you again. So sorry, but better late than never? I hope you'll feel so!

These releases consist of an overview episode about teaching this text within the church, and features Jana Riess, Philip Barlow, and Carrie Mills.

The others are a group of six different episodes (some multi-part) with panelists who we came to call "The Genesis Team." In them, David Bokovoy, Brian Hauglid, and Father Tom Roberts take us through in depth discussions of the key stories in the first 25 chapters of Genesis: the creation, flood, tower of Babel, Abraham, Sodom and Gomorrah, Binding of Isaac, and the saga of Isaac, Rebekah, Esau, and the transformation of Jacob. 

Whether you're a Gospel Doctrine teacher, active class participant, or simply an interested reader hoping for more insight into this most interesting and mischaracterized set of scriptures, this series is a great resource! Enjoy them (maybe it will be again)!

These episodes are encore releases of seven different Mormon Matters podcast show from the last time the LDS Sunday School Gospel Doctrine curriculum covered the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. We're late in putting these in front of you again. So sorry, but better late than never? I hope you'll feel so!

These releases consist of an overview episode about teaching this text within the church, and features Jana Riess, Philip Barlow, and Carrie Mills.

The others are a group of six different episodes (some multi-part) with panelists who we came to call "The Genesis Team." In them, David Bokovoy, Brian Hauglid, and Father Tom Roberts take us through in depth discussions of the key stories in the first 25 chapters of Genesis: the creation, flood, tower of Babel, Abraham, Sodom and Gomorrah, Binding of Isaac, and the saga of Isaac, Rebekah, Esau, and the transformation of Jacob. 

Whether you're a Gospel Doctrine teacher, active class participant, or simply an interested reader hoping for more insight into this most interesting and mischaracterized set of scriptures, this series is a great resource! Enjoy them (maybe it will be again)!

These episodes are encore releases of seven different Mormon Matters podcast show from the last time the LDS Sunday School Gospel Doctrine curriculum covered the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. We're late in putting these in front of you again. So sorry, but better late than never? I hope you'll feel so!

These releases consist of an overview episode about teaching this text within the church, and features Jana Riess, Philip Barlow, and Carrie Mills.

The others are a group of six different episodes (some multi-part) with panelists who we came to call "The Genesis Team." In them, David Bokovoy, Brian Hauglid, and Father Tom Roberts take us through in depth discussions of the key stories in the first 25 chapters of Genesis: the creation, flood, tower of Babel, Abraham, Sodom and Gomorrah, Binding of Isaac, and the saga of Isaac, Rebekah, Esau, and the transformation of Jacob. 

Whether you're a Gospel Doctrine teacher, active class participant, or simply an interested reader hoping for more insight into this most interesting and mischaracterized set of scriptures, this series is a great resource! Enjoy them (maybe it will be again)!

These episodes are encore releases of seven different Mormon Matters podcast show from the last time the LDS Sunday School Gospel Doctrine curriculum covered the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. We're late in putting these in front of you again. So sorry, but better late than never? I hope you'll feel so!

These releases consist of an overview episode about teaching this text within the church, and features Jana Riess, Philip Barlow, and Carrie Mills.

The others are a group of six different episodes (some multi-part) with panelists who we came to call "The Genesis Team." In them, David Bokovoy, Brian Hauglid, and Father Tom Roberts take us through in depth discussions of the key stories in the first 25 chapters of Genesis: the creation, flood, tower of Babel, Abraham, Sodom and Gomorrah, Binding of Isaac, and the saga of Isaac, Rebekah, Esau, and the transformation of Jacob. 

Whether you're a Gospel Doctrine teacher, active class participant, or simply an interested reader hoping for more insight into this most interesting and mischaracterized set of scriptures, this series is a great resource! Enjoy them (maybe it will be again)!

These episodes are encore releases of seven different Mormon Matters podcast show from the last time the LDS Sunday School Gospel Doctrine curriculum covered the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. We're late in putting these in front of you again. So sorry, but better late than never? I hope you'll feel so!

These releases consist of an overview episode about teaching this text within the church, and features Jana Riess, Philip Barlow, and Carrie Mills.

The others are a group of six different episodes (some multi-part) with panelists who we came to call "The Genesis Team." In them, David Bokovoy, Brian Hauglid, and Father Tom Roberts take us through in depth discussions of the key stories in the first 25 chapters of Genesis: the creation, flood, tower of Babel, Abraham, Sodom and Gomorrah, Binding of Isaac, and the saga of Isaac, Rebekah, Esau, and the transformation of Jacob. 

Whether you're a Gospel Doctrine teacher, active class participant, or simply an interested reader hoping for more insight into this most interesting and mischaracterized set of scriptures, this series is a great resource! Enjoy them (maybe it will be again)!

These episodes are encore releases of seven different Mormon Matters podcast show from the last time the LDS Sunday School Gospel Doctrine curriculum covered the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. We're late in putting these in front of you again. So sorry, but better late than never? I hope you'll feel so!

These releases consist of an overview episode about teaching this text within the church, and features Jana Riess, Philip Barlow, and Carrie Mills.

The others are a group of six different episodes (some multi-part) with panelists who we came to call "The Genesis Team." In them, David Bokovoy, Brian Hauglid, and Father Tom Roberts take us through in depth discussions of the key stories in the first 25 chapters of Genesis: the creation, flood, tower of Babel, Abraham, Sodom and Gomorrah, Binding of Isaac, and the saga of Isaac, Rebekah, Esau, and the transformation of Jacob. 

Whether you're a Gospel Doctrine teacher, active class participant, or simply an interested reader hoping for more insight into this most interesting and mischaracterized set of scriptures, this series is a great resource! Enjoy them (maybe it will be again)!

449–461: Old Testament--Teaching and Study Resources

These episodes are encore releases of seven different Mormon Matters podcast show from the last time the LDS Sunday School Gospel Doctrine curriculum covered the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. We're late in putting these in front of you again. So sorry, but better late than never? I hope you'll feel so!

These releases consist of an overview episode about teaching this text within the church, and features Jana Riess, Philip Barlow, and Carrie Mills.

The others are a group of six different episodes (some multi-part) with panelists who we came to call "The Genesis Team." In them, David Bokovoy, Brian Hauglid, and Father Tom Roberts take us through in depth discussions of the key stories in the first 25 chapters of Genesis: the creation, flood, tower of Babel, Abraham, Sodom and Gomorrah, Binding of Isaac, and the saga of Isaac, Rebekah, Esau, and the transformation of Jacob. 

Whether you're a Gospel Doctrine teacher, active class participant, or simply an interested reader hoping for more insight into this most interesting and mischaracterized set of scriptures, this series is a great resource! Enjoy them (maybe it will be again)!

These episodes are encore releases of seven different Mormon Matters podcast show from the last time the LDS Sunday School Gospel Doctrine curriculum covered the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. We're late in putting these in front of you again. So sorry, but better late than never? I hope you'll feel so!

These releases consist of an overview episode about teaching this text within the church, and features Jana Riess, Philip Barlow, and Carrie Mills.

The others are a group of six different episodes (some multi-part) with panelists who we came to call "The Genesis Team." In them, David Bokovoy, Brian Hauglid, and Father Tom Roberts take us through in depth discussions of the key stories in the first 25 chapters of Genesis: the creation, flood, tower of Babel, Abraham, Sodom and Gomorrah, Binding of Isaac, and the saga of Isaac, Rebekah, Esau, and the transformation of Jacob. 

Whether you're a Gospel Doctrine teacher, active class participant, or simply an interested reader hoping for more insight into this most interesting and mischaracterized set of scriptures, this series is a great resource! Enjoy them (maybe it will be again)!

These episodes are encore releases of seven different Mormon Matters podcast show from the last time the LDS Sunday School Gospel Doctrine curriculum covered the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. We're late in putting these in front of you again. So sorry, but better late than never? I hope you'll feel so!

These releases consist of an overview episode (#449) about teaching this text within the church, and features Jana Riess, Philip Barlow, and Carrie Mills.

The others are a group of six different episodes (some multi-part) with panelists who we came to call "The Genesis Team." In them, David Bokovoy, Brian Hauglid, and Father Tom Roberts take us through in depth discussions of the key stories in the first 25 chapters of Genesis: the creation, flood, tower of Babel, Abraham, Sodom and Gomorrah, Binding of Isaac, and the saga of Isaac, Rebekah, Esau, and the transformation of Jacob. 

Whether you're a Gospel Doctrine teacher, active class participant, or simply an interested reader hoping for more insight into this most interesting and mischaracterized set of scriptures, this series is a great resource! Enjoy them (maybe it will be again)!

These episodes are encore releases of seven different Mormon Matters podcast show from the last time the LDS Sunday School Gospel Doctrine curriculum covered the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. We're late in putting these in front of you again. So sorry, but better late than never? I hope you'll feel so!

These releases consist of an overview episode about teaching this text within the church, and features Jana Riess, Philip Barlow, and Carrie Mills.

The others are a group of six different episodes (some multi-part) with panelists who we came to call "The Genesis Team." In them, David Bokovoy, Brian Hauglid, and Father Tom Roberts take us through in depth discussions of the key stories in the first 25 chapters of Genesis: the creation, flood, tower of Babel, Abraham, Sodom and Gomorrah, Binding of Isaac, and the saga of Isaac, Rebekah, Esau, and the transformation of Jacob. 

Whether you're a Gospel Doctrine teacher, active class participant, or simply an interested reader hoping for more insight into this most interesting and mischaracterized set of scriptures, this series is a great resource! Enjoy them (maybe it will be again)!

This episode is a supplement to the previous two-parter on "sustaining" within Mormonism--concentrating especially on times when we find ourselves in some sort of tension with leaders or those in callings whose ideas, teaching style, demeanor, or general approach to the gospel fail to connect positively with us. It features the powerful spiritual teacher Thomas Wirthlin McConkie introducing and leading us through a "shadow practice" exercise. Shadow work is a path to self-discovery as well as loving kindness and compassion, but it begins in disturbance, tension, something unsettled, the appearance of negative emotions whenever we encounter a certain person or situation. Because we typically don't want to feel such things, we will often supress them or attempt to ignore them. Shadow work takes the opposite approach. We lean into the feelings, the negative energy, explore and name them, hone in on the exact things that trigger this negativity and let our minds and emotions have have free rein for a while. And then we take a final step.

Find out what it is.

Shadow work is a practice that will help us see others and ourselves much more clearly, allowing wonderful things begin to unfold. 

One of Mormonism's most attractive features is the wonderful chance all members are given to both formally and informally "sustain" each other as we play various roles within the community. We officially (and for church records) sustain by the raise of our hand various persons in their callings, but more importantly in that way also pledge on our part to be supportive of this sister or brother as they serve in these capacities. Hopefully we whole-heartedly mean this as we "signify by the uplifted hand" and truly feel comfortable with them in their new position and will do our best to support them in ways they may ask of us, and that when it comes up for us to do so to also offer prayers or other forms of encouragement that might strengthen them. Difficulties can arise at times, however, especially when persons are called to leadership positions that affect our communal lives in sometimes dramatic ways. For many of us, there are high stakes involved when members of bishoprics or various presidencies and other positions of leadership are called. Perhaps this person now tasked to serve in this way is someone we've had past conflicts with, someone who feels too rigid or too . . . (fill in the blank here), or someone whose personal conduct has led us to question the inspiration behind their calling. What should we do then? How can we "sustain" them? Does it mean we have to agree with this person? Obey her or his directives? Be loyal and supportive in all things she or he might ask? Can "sustaining" also mean letting them know of our feelings of discomfort with them or something they are teaching or asking?

With the recent changes in the Church's First Presidency and reassignments within the Council of Twelve Apostles, many persons within the church have had to wrestle fresh with how they might sustain President Nelson and President Oaks, especially, in their new (and more prominent) capacities given certain controversial teachings or programs or policies that have been given or spearheaded by them in the past. At their next temple recommend interview or call during a ward conference for sustaining votes for the church's top leadership, how can those who feel these hesitations about those called act with integrity as they are asked if they sustain them as "prophets, seers, and revelators"? Can they "sustain" them while also speaking up in church meetings or other circles about their disagreements with their ideas or directives?

"Sustaining" is an interesting topic within Mormonism, for sure! Thankfully, four wonderful Latter-day Saints agreed to come on Mormon Matters to talk about many of the complexities of sustaining, supporting, and conscientiously acting with regard to leaders and others with whom we may disagree or not enjoy. Caleb Jones follows up his participation in the previous episode on the new church leadership changes by being on again, and he is joined by the wonderful Claudia Bushman, Jenne Alderks, and Christian Harrison. All contribute terrific insights on the topic at many levels, including their own personal experiences wrestling with "What does it mean, exactly, to sustain?" 

One of Mormonism's most attractive features is the wonderful chance all members are given to both formally and informally "sustain" each other as we play various roles within the community. We officially (and for church records) sustain by the raise of our hand various persons in their callings, but more importantly in that way also pledge on our part to be supportive of this sister or brother as they serve in these capacities. Hopefully we whole-heartedly mean this as we "signify by the uplifted hand" and truly feel comfortable with them in their new position and will do our best to support them in ways they may ask of us, and that when it comes up for us to do so to also offer prayers or other forms of encouragement that might strengthen them. Difficulties can arise at times, however, especially when persons are called to leadership positions that affect our communal lives in sometimes dramatic ways. For many of us, there are high stakes involved when members of bishoprics or various presidencies and other positions of leadership are called. Perhaps this person now tasked to serve in this way is someone we've had past conflicts with, someone who feels too rigid or too . . . (fill in the blank here), or someone whose personal conduct has led us to question the inspiration behind their calling. What should we do then? How can we "sustain" them? Does it mean we have to agree with this person? Obey her or his directives? Be loyal and supportive in all things she or he might ask? Can "sustaining" also mean letting them know of our feelings of discomfort with them or something they are teaching or asking?

With the recent changes in the Church's First Presidency and reassignments within the Council of Twelve Apostles, many persons within the church have had to wrestle fresh with how they might sustain President Nelson and President Oaks, especially, in their new (and more prominent) capacities given certain controversial teachings or programs or policies that have been given or spearheaded by them in the past. At their next temple recommend interview or call during a ward conference for sustaining votes for the church's top leadership, how can those who feel these hesitations about those called act with integrity as they are asked if they sustain them as "prophets, seers, and revelators"? Can they "sustain" them while also speaking up in church meetings or other circles about their disagreements with their ideas or directives?

"Sustaining" is an interesting topic within Mormonism, for sure! Thankfully, four wonderful Latter-day Saints agreed to come on Mormon Matters to talk about many of the complexities of sustaining, supporting, and conscientiously acting with regard to leaders and others with whom we may disagree or not enjoy. Caleb Jones follows up his participation in the previous episode on the new church leadership changes by being on again, and he is joined by the wonderful Claudia Bushman, Jenne Alderks, and Christian Harrison. All contribute terrific insights on the topic at many levels, including their own personal experiences wrestling with "What does it mean, exactly, to sustain?" 

On 14 January 2018, twelve days after the passing of Thomas S. Monson, the long-serving prophet-president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the remaining members of the church's highest quorums met together to set apart a new prophet-president, Russell M. Nelson, and to reorganize the First Presidency. In a move that surprised many, President Nelson selected Dallin H. Oaks as his first counselor and Henry B. Eyring as his second counselor. Eyring had previously been first counselor in the First Presidency under President Monson, and served alongside Dieter F. Uchtdorf as second counselor, who, with this change now moves back into his seniority slot within the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (which is currently a quorum of ten following president Monson's passing along with that of Elder Robert D. Hales a couple of months before.) Two days after the shuffle in the First Presidency, the three members of the First Presidency, with the apostles in the room but (except for one conducting a meeting) not speaking, appeared in front of television cameras, first within the Salt Lake Temple where each shared prepared remarks, and then thirty or so minutes later where they took part in a press conference.

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, is joined by good friends and fellow church watchers Walt Wood, Rosalynde Welch, and Caleb Jones in a discussion of this new prophet, First Presidency, and role changes within the Quorum of the Twelve. What are their impressions of the two public events? The changes in assignments? This new leadership in terms of what they said and didn't say in their messaging about what had happened and how the church might move in response to certain areas of concern (as prompted by questions from the press)? The panelists share personal reactions to the news and news conference as well as speak to what they have been hearing among the various church constituencies of which they are a part--most particularly with regard to the reassignment of Elder Uchtdorf and its potential effects on the church, both external and internal. New leadership takes time to get to know, and the panelists share their intentions to be patient and attentive and thoughtful as they hear and sustain these leaders in their new roles. In what resources or impressions are they finding optimism and strength?

On 14 January 2018, twelve days after the passing of Thomas S. Monson, the long-serving prophet-president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the remaining members of the church's highest quorums met together to set apart a new prophet-president, Russell M. Nelson, and to reorganize the First Presidency. In a move that surprised many, President Nelson selected Dallin H. Oaks as his first counselor and Henry B. Eyring as his second counselor. Eyring had previously been first counselor in the First Presidency under President Monson, and served alongside Dieter F. Uchtdorf as second counselor, who, with this change now moves back into his seniority slot within the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (which is currently a quorum of ten following president Monson's passing along with that of Elder Robert D. Hales a couple of months before.) Two days after the shuffle in the First Presidency, the three members of the First Presidency, with the apostles in the room but (except for one conducting a meeting) not speaking, appeared in front of television cameras, first within the Salt Lake Temple where each shared prepared remarks, and then thirty or so minutes later where they took part in a press conference.

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, is joined by good friends and fellow church watchers Walt Wood, Rosalynde Welch, and Caleb Jones in a discussion of this new prophet, First Presidency, and role changes within the Quorum of the Twelve. What are their impressions of the two public events? The changes in assignments? This new leadership in terms of what they said and didn't say in their messaging about what had happened and how the church might move in response to certain areas of concern (as prompted by questions from the press)? The panelists share personal reactions to the news and news conference as well as speak to what they have been hearing among the various church constituencies of which they are a part--most particularly with regard to the reassignment of Elder Uchtdorf and its potential effects on the church, both external and internal. New leadership takes time to get to know, and the panelists share their intentions to be patient and attentive and thoughtful as they hear and sustain these leaders in their new roles. In what resources or impressions are they finding optimism and strength?

In this follow-up episode to our early December shows titled "Mormons Encountering Death," former hospice chaplain and meditation and contemplation teacher Phil McLemore joins Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a deep dive into spiritual practices and insights that can help one prepare (and prepare now!) for our eventual death. Combining discussions of scripture, both Biblical and LDS, with training and sensibilities from contemplative traditions, the two speak directly to the causes of the fear and anxieties that often lead to our denying our mortality or refusing to consider the dying process and working toward it becoming less terrifying—and possibly even beautiful.

May these 90 minutes be a source of wisdom and potential comfort to you, as well as a spur to greater integration of death into our daily consciousness.

Bill Reel is widely known within the Mormon podcast world as a fellow traveler on the road many of us have found ourselves on--often quite reluctantly. At one time, we have thrived within Mormonism. It contributes greatly to our identity, and provides our primary social group. It helps shape our thinking and character in ways we don't often reflect upon. We have everything figured out. Our religious worldview tells us what's of foremost importance, and where various traps are that might lead us from the path God says we should follow. And then . . . a bump . . . a hiccup . . . a fact that shakes us or idea that once we truly examine it leaves us scratching our head. Things accelerate. If this practice or that idea are showing themselves to be something less that purely divine in origins, to have changed over the centuries, to have human fingerprints all over them, and we move into what many call a "faith crisis." And, now it dawns on us that we will have to decide things for ourselves. Those values we were taught and believe--were they truly the best ones (or the best ones for me), the ones that my spirit or temperament is meant to hold above other ones? What about this path? I see others traveling down different ones, should I explore it? And so on and so forth...

Bill and I, and so many of you, know this territory well. We've lived it. And we've faced it in different ways according to our experiences, temperaments, needs. But via moving into this complexity, for some of us, our continuing to live or push through the tensions and difficult processes of choosing (very reflectively) our own values have ultimately led to a newfound peace. It's not a "tensionless" peace, but we end up coming to find those places where ideas and personalities and practices rub against each other (and never fully come to make perfect "sense" according to our rational minds) to be important catalysts for growth and creativity and a newfound sense of purpose--and peace. One much sturdier and less susceptible to discouragement and despair when life does its "life-ing" and people do their "human-ing" and leaders and family members and friends shift or fail to shift in the directions we'd like them to.

I'm grateful that I got the chance to interview and have a great conversation with Bill. I know you'll find him very insightful, as well as vulnerable and relatable and good-hearted. He shares his journey with us--so far!--and reflects on faith development and shifts from ego-centrism and tribal thinking to a centering in a wider cosmos and valuing the gifts of every religious tradition, every person. Finally, in addition to talking about Mormonism as a wonderful workshop in which to all tensions to do their refining and expanding work, we discuss how he now views and "holds" his Mormonism (including addressing a shift--that many have noticed and talked about--in his podcast's tone beginning about two years ago) and how new understandings of myth and ritual and practice have helped him become re-centered in Mormonism, but far more "on his own terms." Bill is a wonderful teacher and person, and I trust you will all very much enjoy this episode!

Bill Reel is widely known within the Mormon podcast world as a fellow traveler on the road many of us have found ourselves on--often quite reluctantly. At one time, we have thrived within Mormonism. It contributes greatly to our identity, and provides our primary social group. It helps shape our thinking and character in ways we don't often reflect upon. We have everything figured out. Our religious worldview tells us what's of foremost importance, and where various traps are that might lead us from the path God says we should follow. And then . . . a bump . . . a hiccup . . . a fact that shakes us or idea that once we truly examine it leaves us scratching our head. Things accelerate. If this practice or that idea are showing themselves to be something less that purely divine in origins, to have changed over the centuries, to have human fingerprints all over them, and we move into what many call a "faith crisis." And, now it dawns on us that we will have to decide things for ourselves. Those values we were taught and believe--were they truly the best ones (or the best ones for me), the ones that my spirit or temperament is meant to hold above other ones? What about this path? I see others traveling down different ones, should I explore it? And so on and so forth...

Bill and I, and so many of you, know this territory well. We've lived it. And we've faced it in different ways according to our experiences, temperaments, needs. But via moving into this complexity, for some of us, our continuing to live or push through the tensions and difficult processes of choosing (very reflectively) our own values have ultimately led to a newfound peace. It's not a "tensionless" peace, but we end up coming to find those places where ideas and personalities and practices rub against each other (and never fully come to make perfect "sense" according to our rational minds) to be important catalysts for growth and creativity and a newfound sense of purpose--and peace. One much sturdier and less susceptible to discouragement and despair when life does its "life-ing" and people do their "human-ing" and leaders and family members and friends shift or fail to shift in the directions we'd like them to.

I'm grateful that I got the chance to interview and have a great conversation with Bill. I know you'll find him very insightful, as well as vulnerable and relatable and good-hearted. He shares his journey with us--so far!--and reflects on faith development and shifts from ego-centrism and tribal thinking to a centering in a wider cosmos and valuing the gifts of every religious tradition, every person. Finally, in addition to talking about Mormonism as a wonderful workshop in which to all tensions to do their refining and expanding work, we discuss how he now views and "holds" his Mormonism (including addressing a shift--that many have noticed and talked about--in his podcast's tone beginning about two years ago) and how new understandings of myth and ritual and practice have helped him become re-centered in Mormonism, but far more "on his own terms." Bill is a wonderful teacher and person, and I trust you will all very much enjoy this episode!

Happy New Year, Mormon Matters listeners! 

To start 2018, I asked many of my friends if they would consider writing prayers for the new year or share favorite prayers they have gained strength from in the past. More than twenty responded!

Recordings of them reading these prayers are included in this three-part episode, along with brief introductions of each person and a bit of background about the prayer they wrote or chose to share. They are diverse, and range from prayers in pretty standard Mormon forms, to prayer-poems, and prose essays. The participants represent a variety of voices and perspectives: women, men, believers, agnostics/atheists, engaged Latter-day Saints, lapsed Mormons, and two women who are attending divinity school. All share one thing, though: They have been on marvelous, integrity-filled journeys with God/Spirit/the Universe. I know you will really enjoy getting to know them and their hearts in this intimate way.

Part 1 (Ep. 438) features prayers from:

Susan Hinckley, Eric Samuelsen, Lisa Scott, Rick Jepson, Sonja Farnsworth, Tom Kimball, Megan Kjar Christiansen, and Richard Ostler.

Part 2 (Ep. 439) features prayers from:

Laurie Lee Hall, Scott Turley, Gina Colvin, Scot Denhalter, Jody England Hansen, Stephen Carter, Merrie Smithson, John Gustav-Wrathall, Fiona Givens, and Joseph Stanford

Part 3 (Ep. 440) features prayers from:

Becky and Shannon Linford, Mark Crego, Katie Langston, Leon Maynard, Sydnie Olsen, Greg Olsen, Carol Lynn Pearson, and Dan Wotherspoon  

Happy New Year, Mormon Matters listeners! 

To start 2018, I asked many of my friends if they would consider writing prayers for the new year or share favorite prayers they have gained strength from in the past. More than twenty responded!

Recordings of them reading these prayers are included in this three-part episode, along with brief introductions of each person and a bit of background about the prayer they wrote or chose to share. They are diverse, and range from prayers in pretty standard Mormon forms, to prayer-poems, and prose essays. The participants represent a variety of voices and perspectives: women, men, believers, agnostics/atheists, engaged Latter-day Saints, lapsed Mormons, and two women who are attending divinity school. All share one thing, though: They have been on marvelous, integrity-filled journeys with God/Spirit/the Universe. I know you will really enjoy getting to know them and their hearts in this intimate way.

Part 1 (Ep. 438) features prayers from:

Susan Hinckley, Eric Samuelsen, Lisa Scott, Rick Jepson, Sonja Farnsworth, Tom Kimball, Megan Kjar Christiansen, and Richard Ostler.

Part 2 (Ep. 439) features prayers from:

Laurie Lee Hall, Scott Turley, Gina Colvin, Scot Denhalter, Jody England Hansen, Stephen Carter, Merrie Smithson, John Gustav-Wrathall, Fiona Givens, and Joseph Stanford

Part 3 (Ep. 440) features prayers from:

Becky and Shannon Linford, Mark Crego, Katie Langston, Leon Maynard, Sydnie Olsen, Greg Olsen, Carol Lynn Pearson, and Dan Wotherspoon  

Happy New Year, Mormon Matters listeners! 

To start 2018, I asked many of my friends if they would consider writing prayers for the new year or share favorite prayers they have gained strength from in the past. More than twenty responded!

Recordings of them reading these prayers are included in this three-part episode, along with brief introductions of each person and a bit of background about the prayer they wrote or chose to share. They are diverse, and range from prayers in pretty standard Mormon forms, to prayer-poems, and prose essays. The participants represent a variety of voices and perspectives: women, men, believers, agnostics/atheists, engaged Latter-day Saints, lapsed Mormons, and two women who are attending divinity school. All share one thing, though: They have been on marvelous, integrity-filled journeys with God/Spirit/the Universe. I know you will really enjoy getting to know them and their hearts in this intimate way.

Part 1 (Ep. 438) features prayers from:

Susan Hinckley, Eric Samuelsen, Lisa Scott, Rick Jepson, Sonja Farnsworth, Tom Kimball, Megan Kjar Christiansen, and Richard Ostler.

Part 2 (Ep. 439) features prayers from:

Laurie Lee Hall, Scott Turley, Gina Colvin, Scot Denhalter, Jody England Hansen, Stephen Carter, Merrie Smithson, John Gustav-Wrathall, Fiona Givens, and Joseph Stanford

Part 3 (Ep. 440) features prayers from:

Becky and Shannon Linford, Mark Crego, Katie Langston, Leon Maynard, Sydnie Olsen, Greg Olsen, Carol Lynn Pearson, and Dan Wotherspoon  

On 14 December 2007, a new directive from the First Presidency was released outlining changes to certain things related to youth performing baptisms for the dead in LDS temples, as well as to the annual meeting held to prepare 11-year-old boys to receive the priesthood in the coming calendar year. The changes primarily involve now allowing Priests in the Aaronic Priesthood (typically ages 16 to 18) to perform these baptisms, as well as to serve as official witnesses to them (tasks previously performed in temples only by Melchizedek Priesthood temple recommend holders), and also to have members of the Young Women's program now take on baptistry roles that up until now have been performed only by female (adult) temple workers. The "Priesthood Preview" meeting is now being re-named the "Temple and Priesthood Preparation" meeting, and will now include 11-year-olds of both sexes, along with their parents (who already attended with their young men about to turn 12).

In this two-part episode, we focus on initial reactions to the announcements. Why might these have come? And why now? What are the nature of the roles that these youth will now be able to perform? How do temple baptistries work now, and how might this change? Is this announcement an overall positive step for the church in terms of moving toward greater equality of women and men, or does is actually highlight even more the inequalities between the sexes and their roles in the church? Will young women and men, especially those who know each other well (fellow ward members, etc.) be able to be comfortable in these new roles when it comes to performing the ordinances and temple work? Will the intimacy of ritual and touching (even in such non-sexual ways like what is involved in baptism) make them, especially the young women, uncomfortable? And/Or might this stir feelings in either the young men or women that are something other than "sacred" in nature (at least in the temple setting)? We discuss all of the above, and more!

Our guides for this "initial reactions" podcast episode are the incredible Cynthia Winward, Bruce Van Orden, Kent Nuttall, and Rosalynde Welch. Each is wise, insightful, and experienced in the various aspects and issues at play regarding the changes in both main areas here: the temple baptistry and working with Young Women, Young Men, and Primary-age children. They each contribute wonderfully!

Please listen and then join in with your comments at mormonmatters.org!

On 14 December 2007, a new directive from the First Presidency was released outlining changes to certain things related to youth performing baptisms for the dead in LDS temples, as well as to the annual meeting held to prepare 11-year-old boys to receive the priesthood in the coming calendar year. The changes primarily involve now allowing Priests in the Aaronic Priesthood (typically ages 16 to 18) to perform these baptisms, as well as to serve as official witnesses to them (tasks previously performed in temples only by Melchizedek Priesthood temple recommend holders), and also to have members of the Young Women's program now take on baptistry roles that up until now have been performed only by female (adult) temple workers. The "Priesthood Preview" meeting is now being re-named the "Temple and Priesthood Preparation" meeting, and will now include 11-year-olds of both sexes, along with their parents (who already attended with their young men about to turn 12).

In this two-part episode, we focus on initial reactions to the announcements. Why might these have come? And why now? What are the nature of the roles that these youth will now be able to perform? How do temple baptistries work now, and how might this change? Is this announcement an overall positive step for the church in terms of moving toward greater equality of women and men, or does is actually highlight even more the inequalities between the sexes and their roles in the church? Will young women and men, especially those who know each other well (fellow ward members, etc.) be able to be comfortable in these new roles when it comes to performing the ordinances and temple work? Will the intimacy of ritual and touching (even in such non-sexual ways like what is involved in baptism) make them, especially the young women, uncomfortable? And/Or might this stir feelings in either the young men or women that are something other than "sacred" in nature (at least in the temple setting)? We discuss all of the above, and more!

Our guides for this "initial reactions" podcast episode are the incredible Cynthia Winward, Bruce Van Orden, Kent Nuttall, and Rosalynde Welch. Each is wise, insightful, and experienced in the various aspects and issues at play regarding the changes in both main areas here: the temple baptistry and working with Young Women, Young Men, and Primary-age children. They each contribute wonderfully!

Please listen and then join in with your comments at mormonmatters.org!

Mormonism hangs its hat, so to speak, on the reality of revelation. It claims that God the Father and Jesus Christ visited a teenage boy in 1820 and made it perfectly clear to him that he should join none of the existing churches and that through him they would restore to the earth lost teachings and priesthoods. It also claims that revelation and the ability of Latter-day Saints to learn and come to "know" for certain truths via the mediation and inspiration of the Holy Ghost is alive and active today. Given one's stewardship, whether it is over the whole earth and church, as is the case with the LDS prophet and apostles, or one's own family, which is the responsibility of parents and siblings, clear and specific direction is available and can be (and is being) received. 

But the process of receiving revelation is not at all simple—or at least not as simple as some imagine it to be. When is someone receiving revelation versus simply having a good idea come to her or his mind? Are the thoughts that enter into one's consciousness fully God's/Spirit's advice for the next move to make or direction to head in, or does this process also involve in a heavy way the interaction of the human side of things? Is it colored by personality, pre-conceived ideas or assumptions the person already has? Their language? Their expectations? The myths and exemplars who stand prominent in their thoughts? The formats ("still, small voice," prophetic dreams, visions, visitations) and type of content they imagine God might use or share in making the Divine will known to them? Theologians have been working for centuries on questions like this. In revelation, such as scripture, what percentage of what ends up on the page or one's tongue is actually contributed by God, and how by the person receiving it? It's a complex set of questions!

Luckily we have two wonderful thinkers and students of both revelation and Mormonism as guests in this three-part exploration of the intrigue and messiness of revelation. Charles Harrell and Ronald Barney join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a serious dive into the nature, scope, and factors involved in it. They explore various models for revelation and the Divine-Human dynamic and then apply them to specific instances and accounts in Mormon history and contemporary experience and discourse. And in the course of the discussion they all also share a bit about their own personal wrestles with this important and interesting subject.

It's a terrific podcast! You'll be glad you tuned in!

Mormonism hangs its hat, so to speak, on the reality of revelation. It claims that God the Father and Jesus Christ visited a teenage boy in 1820 and made it perfectly clear to him that he should join none of the existing churches and that through him they would restore to the earth lost teachings and priesthoods. It also claims that revelation and the ability of Latter-day Saints to learn and come to "know" for certain truths via the mediation and inspiration of the Holy Ghost is alive and active today. Given one's stewardship, whether it is over the whole earth and church, as is the case with the LDS prophet and apostles, or one's own family, which is the responsibility of parents and siblings, clear and specific direction is available and can be (and is being) received. 

But the process of receiving revelation is not at all simple—or at least not as simple as some imagine it to be. When is someone receiving revelation versus simply having a good idea come to her or his mind? Are the thoughts that enter into one's consciousness fully God's/Spirit's advice for the next move to make or direction to head in, or does this process also involve in a heavy way the interaction of the human side of things? Is it colored by personality, pre-conceived ideas or assumptions the person already has? Their language? Their expectations? The myths and exemplars who stand prominent in their thoughts? The formats ("still, small voice," prophetic dreams, visions, visitations) and type of content they imagine God might use or share in making the Divine will known to them? Theologians have been working for centuries on questions like this. In revelation, such as scripture, what percentage of what ends up on the page or one's tongue is actually contributed by God, and how by the person receiving it? It's a complex set of questions!

Luckily we have two wonderful thinkers and students of both revelation and Mormonism as guests in this three-part exploration of the intrigue and messiness of revelation. Charles Harrell and Ronald Barney join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a serious dive into the nature, scope, and factors involved in it. They explore various models for revelation and the Divine-Human dynamic and then apply them to specific instances and accounts in Mormon history and contemporary experience and discourse. And in the course of the discussion they all also share a bit about their own personal wrestles with this important and interesting subject.

It's a terrific podcast! You'll be glad you tuned in!

Mormonism hangs its hat, so to speak, on the reality of revelation. It claims that God the Father and Jesus Christ visited a teenage boy in 1820 and made it perfectly clear to him that he should join none of the existing churches and that through him they would restore to the earth lost teachings and priesthoods. It also claims that revelation and the ability of Latter-day Saints to learn and come to "know" for certain truths via the mediation and inspiration of the Holy Ghost is alive and active today. Given one's stewardship, whether it is over the whole earth and church, as is the case with the LDS prophet and apostles, or one's own family, which is the responsibility of parents and siblings, clear and specific direction is available and can be (and is being) received. 

But the process of receiving revelation is not at all simple—or at least not as simple as some imagine it to be. When is someone receiving revelation versus simply having a good idea come to her or his mind? Are the thoughts that enter into one's consciousness fully God's/Spirit's advice for the next move to make or direction to head in, or does this process also involve in a heavy way the interaction of the human side of things? Is it colored by personality, pre-conceived ideas or assumptions the person already has? Their language? Their expectations? The myths and exemplars who stand prominent in their thoughts? The formats ("still, small voice," prophetic dreams, visions, visitations) and type of content they imagine God might use or share in making the Divine will known to them? Theologians have been working for centuries on questions like this. In revelation, such as scripture, what percentage of what ends up on the page or one's tongue is actually contributed by God, and how by the person receiving it? It's a complex set of questions!

Luckily we have two wonderful thinkers and students of both revelation and Mormonism as guests in this three-part exploration of the intrigue and messiness of revelation. Charles Harrell and Ronald Barney join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a serious dive into the nature, scope, and factors involved in it. They explore various models for revelation and the Divine-Human dynamic and then apply them to specific instances and accounts in Mormon history and contemporary experience and discourse. And in the course of the discussion they all also share a bit about their own personal wrestles with this important and interesting subject.

It's a terrific podcast! You'll be glad you tuned in!

“People tend to die the way they’ve lived.” So say two of the guests from different segments of this podcast. Both Dr. Samuel Brown, a medical school professor and doctor who specializes in intensive care medicine, and Philip McLemore, a longtime hospice chaplain, have experienced the deaths of many patients and clients, and have been with them and their families in the days and months leading to their passing. Stephen Carter has edited a newly published book of essays, stories, plays, and poetry by Mormons reflecting on various aspects of death and the dying process titled Moth and Rust: Mormon Encounters with Death (Signature Books, 2017). In this three-part episode, each of them shares his experiences and wisdom related to the mystery of death, the elements that typically come together well when someone’s passing might be labeled a “good” or “holy” death, how interactions between those dying and their families and loved ones can affect the experience of someone’s moving on as well as for the grieving processes that follow, and much more.

In Part 1, Stephen reflects on his experiences and meditations over the past two years of gathering and preparing for publication the various writings that make up Moth and Rust. He is especially alerted to how this book is quite different than most writings about death within Mormon culture and publishing, as these others seem to focus on death as part of the “big picture,” the ongoing story of the Plan of Salvation, on eternal life and what lies ahead. They typically focus on answers and assurances to those facing their own deaths or those of loved ones. Moth and Rust separates itself from these by featuring short accounts of various aspects of death and dying without much theoretical overlay. In it you’ll find pieces that show Mormons facing deaths of all kinds, including that of infants and children. About Latter-day Saints sharing both assurance and confusion about communion across the veil. Of them learning about themselves and their highest values from encounters with death. About God and suffering. And more! (The book has 46 entries!)

Part 2, featuring Sam Brown, focuses first on his work as a historian studying early nineteenth-century and Mormon death culture and the high prevalence of death during this time period and how it affected daily and religious lives and thinking. People during this time period were far more familiar with death up close than we now are because of medical technology and understandings that extend life, but also because of the rise of the funeral industry which has led to the outsourcing of care for the body and preparation for burial, things that were once managed within the home. It then turns to Dr. Brown’s experiences with patients who are very sick and often facing imminent death, including how this work has affected his own personal views of death and dying, as well as his spiritual life.

Part 3 features stories and reflections from Phil McLemore’s work as a hospice chaplain in Utah, working with mostly Mormon clients and their families. In what ways does Mormonism both sometimes comfort but also complicate things as someone faces death? He and Stephen speak passionately about LDS culture (and wider Western, capitalist culture) and its role in sometimes hiding from thought processes and failing to communicate well the importance of someone’s doing within their lifetime (or in the final months prior to death) the kinds of “inner” or spiritual work that is often a big factor in someone’s peaceful transition from mortality to immortality. As with Sam in Part 2, this third segment also spends a good amount of time on what factors, should time and faculties and conscious awareness be granted to the person who is in the dying process, can and do contribute to a “good” death.

This is a terrific series of conversations that can lead to a greater appreciation for life through its focusing as early as we can and regularly on this difficult to talk about subject that is also a very important aspect of life. Memento Vivere; Memento Mori!

“People tend to die the way they’ve lived.” So say two of the guests from different segments of this podcast. Both Dr. Samuel Brown, a medical school professor and doctor who specializes in intensive care medicine, and Philip McLemore, a longtime hospice chaplain, have experienced the deaths of many patients and clients, and have been with them and their families in the days and months leading to their passing. Stephen Carter, has edited a newly published book of essays, stories, plays, and poetry by Mormons reflecting on various aspects of death and the dying process titled Moth and Rust: Mormon Encounters with Death (Signature Books, 2017). In this three-part episode, each of them shares his experiences and wisdom related to the mystery of death, the elements that typically come together well when someone’s passing might be labeled a “good” or “holy” death, how interactions between those dying and their families and loved ones can affect the experience of someone’s moving on as well as for the grieving processes that follow, and much more.

In Part 1, Stephen reflects on his experiences and meditations over the past two years of gathering and preparing for publication the various writings that make up Moth and Rust. He is especially alerted to how this book is quite different than most writings about death within Mormon culture and publishing, as these others seem to focus on death as part of the “big picture,” the ongoing story of the Plan of Salvation, on eternal life and what lies ahead. They typically focus on answers and assurances to those facing their own deaths or those of loved ones. Moth and Rustseparates itself from these by featuring short accounts of various aspects of death and dying without much theoretical overlay. In it you’ll find pieces that show Mormons facing deaths of all kinds, including that of infants and children. About Latter-day Saints sharing both assurance and confusion about communion across the veil. Of them learning about themselves and their highest values from encounters with death. About God and suffering. And more! (The book has 46 entries!)

Part 2, featuring Sam Brown, focuses first on his work as a historian studying early nineteenth-century and Mormon death culture and the high prevalence of death during this time period and how it affected daily and religious lives and thinking. People during this time period were far more familiar with death up close than we now are because of medical technology and understandings that extend life, but also because of the rise of the funeral industry which has led to the outsourcing of care for the body and preparation for burial, things that were once managed within the home. It then turns to Dr. Brown’s experiences with patients who are very sick and often facing imminent death, including how this work has affected his own personal views of death and dying, as well as his spiritual life.

Part 3 features stories and reflections from Phil McLemore’s work as a hospice chaplain in Utah, working with mostly Mormon clients and their families. In what ways does Mormonism both sometimes comfort but also complicate things as someone faces death? He and Stephen speak passionately about LDS culture (and wider Western, capitalist culture) and its role in sometimes hiding from thought processes and failing to communicate well the importance of someone’s doing within their lifetime (or in the final months prior to death) the kinds of “inner” or spiritual work that is often a big factor in someone’s peaceful transition from mortality to immortality. As with Sam in Part 2, this third segment also spends a good amount of time on what factors, should time and faculties and conscious awareness be granted to the person who is in the dying process, can and do contribute to a “good” death.

This is a terrific series of conversations that can lead to a greater appreciation for life through its focusing as early as we can and regularly on this difficult to talk about subject that is also a very important aspect of life. Memento Vivere; Memento Mori!

“People tend to die the way they’ve lived.” So say two of the guests from different segments of this podcast. Both Dr. Samuel Brown, a medical school professor and doctor who specializes in intensive care medicine, and Philip McLemore, a longtime hospice chaplain, have experienced the deaths of many patients and clients, and have been with them and their families in the days and months leading to their passing. Stephen Carter, has edited a newly published book of essays, stories, plays, and poetry by Mormons reflecting on various aspects of death and the dying process titled Moth and Rust: Mormon Encounters with Death (Signature Books, 2017). In this three-part episode, each of them shares his experiences and wisdom related to the mystery of death, the elements that typically come together well when someone’s passing might be labeled a “good” or “holy” death, how interactions between those dying and their families and loved ones can affect the experience of someone’s moving on as well as for the grieving processes that follow, and much more.

In Part 1, Stephen reflects on his experiences and meditations over the past two years of gathering and preparing for publication the various writings that make up Moth and Rust. He is especially alerted to how this book is quite different than most writings about death within Mormon culture and publishing, as these others seem to focus on death as part of the “big picture,” the ongoing story of the Plan of Salvation, on eternal life and what lies ahead. They typically focus on answers and assurances to those facing their own deaths or those of loved ones. Moth and Rust separates itself from these by featuring short accounts of various aspects of death and dying without much theoretical overlay. In it you’ll find pieces that show Mormons facing deaths of all kinds, including that of infants and children. About Latter-day Saints sharing both assurance and confusion about communion across the veil. Of them learning about themselves and their highest values from encounters with death. About God and suffering. And more! (The book has 46 entries!)

Part 2, featuring Sam Brown, focuses first on his work as a historian studying early nineteenth-century and Mormon death culture and the high prevalence of death during this time period and how it affected daily and religious lives and thinking. People during this time period were far more familiar with death up close than we now are because of medical technology and understandings that extend life, but also because of the rise of the funeral industry which has led to the outsourcing of care for the body and preparation for burial, things that were once managed within the home. It then turns to Dr. Brown’s experiences with patients who are very sick and often facing imminent death, including how this work has affected his own personal views of death and dying, as well as his spiritual life.

Part 3 features stories and reflections from Phil McLemore’s work as a hospice chaplain in Utah, working with mostly Mormon clients and their families. In what ways does Mormonism both sometimes comfort but also complicate things as someone faces death? He and Stephen speak passionately about LDS culture (and wider Western, capitalist culture) and its role in sometimes hiding from thought processes and failing to communicate well the importance of someone’s doing within their lifetime (or in the final months prior to death) the kinds of “inner” or spiritual work that is often a big factor in someone’s peaceful transition from mortality to immortality. As with Sam in Part 2, this third segment also spends a good amount of time on what factors, should time and faculties and conscious awareness be granted to the person who is in the dying process, can and do contribute to a “good” death.

This is a terrific series of conversations that can lead to a greater appreciation for life through its focusing as early as we can and regularly on this difficult to talk about subject that is also a very important aspect of life. Memento Vivere; Memento Mori!

Fiona Givens' and Terryl Givens' most recent book, The Christ Who Heals: How God Restored the Truth That Saves Us, is remarkable. But it’s not because very many of the ideas they present are unheard of, undiscussed, or absolutely foreign to Latter-day Saints. Instead, the triumph of this book is in its distillation from many ancient and modern sources of a vision of Christ and the other members of the Godhead (Heavenly Mother and the extended Divine Council) that is gorgeous, ennobling of humankind, empowering for us in this earthly sphere, and reveals Gods who are in solidarity with us in our pains and suffering and whose only project (“work and glory”) is to patiently teach us, model for us the scope of a truly abundant type of life, and help us discern what is keeping us from seeing, understanding, and choosing steps that will help us move forward toward it.

The ideas and vision that is in this book is my (host Dan Wotherspoon) favorite depiction of the Plan of Salvation (Happiness) and Christ’s Atoning work. In engenders deeper love within me for my Heavenly Parents, Savior/Healer, and Holy Companion/Paraclete/Comforter and all beings who are venturing along a Godward path—which, ultimately, is or will be everyone (with only very few exceptions). And this is so, especially as we see in it that at every step we are collaborators with the Gods in their project. And even if the depictions of Gods’ work and glory in this book aren’t exactly on the nose, or even if the whole Christian drama is purely a mythic presentation that fails to correspond with anything in the eternal realm, this vision of the Gods and Heavens are ones that I hope are true.  Yet even if not, I am inspired in wonderful ways to want to deepen my relationship with my fellow human beings and to immerse myself even more deeply into the energies I’ve felt as I have tasted experiences that seem far deeper to me than anything my senses could generate or brain could present to me.

I hope you’ll listen to this podcast and consider Christ anew—or if not exactly anew as much here will be familiar to you, at least to consider what it means in your life to sense the presence at every step of a loving God, who even if you feel alone in your struggles and pain, is with you every step, and sees you and all that is blocking you from a fuller understanding. What would it be like to be “healed”?

Fiona Givens' and Terryl Givens' most recent book, The Christ Who Heals: How God Restored the Truth That Saves Us, is remarkable. But it’s not because very many of the ideas they present are unheard of, undiscussed, or absolutely foreign to Latter-day Saints. Instead, the triumph of this book is in its distillation from many ancient and modern sources of a vision of Christ and the other members of the Godhead (Heavenly Mother and the extended Divine Council) that is gorgeous, ennobling of humankind, empowering for us in this earthly sphere, and reveals Gods who are in solidarity with us in our pains and suffering and whose only project (“work and glory”) is to patiently teach us, model for us the scope of a truly abundant type of life, and help us discern what is keeping us from seeing, understanding, and choosing steps that will help us move forward toward it.

The ideas and vision that is in this book is my (host Dan Wotherspoon) favorite depiction of the Plan of Salvation (Happiness) and Christ’s Atoning work. In engenders deeper love within me for my Heavenly Parents, Savior/Healer, and Holy Companion/Paraclete/Comforter and all beings who are venturing along a Godward path—which, ultimately, is or will be everyone (with only very few exceptions). And this is so, especially as we see in it that at every step we are collaborators with the Gods in their project. And even if the depictions of Gods’ work and glory in this book aren’t exactly on the nose, or even if the whole Christian drama is purely a mythic presentation that fails to correspond with anything in the eternal realm, this vision of the Gods and Heavens are ones that I hope are true.  Yet even if not, I am inspired in wonderful ways to want to deepen my relationship with my fellow human beings and to immerse myself even more deeply into the energies I’ve felt as I have tasted experiences that seem far deeper to me than anything my senses could generate or brain could present to me.

I hope you’ll listen to this podcast and consider Christ anew—or if not exactly anew as much here will be familiar to you, at least to consider what it means in your life to sense the presence at every step of a loving God, who even if you feel alone in your struggles and pain, is with you every step, and sees you and all that is blocking you from a fuller understanding. Imagine what it would be like to be “healed”!

This is an encore presentation of a fantastic May 2014 episode by the same name. In this episode, philosopher-theologian Adam Miller and narrative studies specialist Stephen Carter join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon to explore the many and varied ways we live within, think from, are shaped by, and are both aided and hindered by "stories." The depth at which our lives are impacted by narratives—about what the world is like, about ourselves, our lives, our hopes and deepest desires, about God or the universe’s biggest forces—is staggering. Plus, and here is where it gets interesting, messy, and sometimes frightening, our stories change. Sometimes we fight these changes, trying to pigeon-hole into pre-packaged worldviews and narratives everything that life in all its complexity is attempting to show us. When we do so, we fail to live fully, to be vital. Sometimes Mormonism, if we give into certain cultural forces, seems to distract us from seeing this failure, from realizing our stagnation. But does it also have elements that focus our attention directly to the importance of living out of big stories that are intended to always yield to even richer vistas and more profound embodiments?

We cannot escape stories. They provide many of the fundamental lenses through which we see and function in the world. But can we break free from the negative aspects of these narratives? Can we, and how do we, develop a love for the life-giving dynamic of letting life constantly call into question our stories and exploring our way into new ones? The participants in this conversation believe we can, and they share their experiences with "living" stories—Mormon ones, and others.

This is a wonderful episode that will give you a lot to think about!

The four people on this three-part podcast episode love Richard Rohr's book, Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life. If you find yourself experiencing a faith crisis or in some way are actively feeling called to reexamine and make peace with or in some way better integrate within your heart, soul, and mind, life's deepest and most unsolvable (thankfully!) questions and your personal experiences (wonderful and tragic) in deep, soulful ways in which you can come to most meaningfully embrace your truest self and life in all its beautiful (and tragic) mystery, please listen. Please buy, borrow, rent this book. Whether in the first or second half of life, there are  wonderful insights and many potentially life-changing bits of wisdom within.

Joining Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for this rich and often very personal discussion are Jana Spangler, Jeralee Renshaw, and Scott Turley.

The four people on this three-part podcast episode love Richard Rohr's book, Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life. If you find yourself experiencing a faith crisis or in some way are actively feeling called to reexamine and make peace with or in some way better integrate within your heart, soul, and mind, life's deepest and most unsolvable (thankfully!) questions and your personal experiences (wonderful and tragic) in deep, soulful ways in which you can come to most meaningfully embrace your truest self and life in all its beautiful (and tragic) mystery, please listen. Please buy, borrow, rent this book. Whether in the first or second half of life, there are  wonderful insights and many potentially life-changing bits of wisdom within.

Joining Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for this rich and often very personal discussion are Jana Spangler, Jeralee Renshaw, and Scott Turley.

The four people on this three-part podcast episode love Richard Rohr's book, Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life. If you find yourself experiencing a faith crisis or in some way are actively feeling called to reexamine and make peace with or in some way better integrate within your heart, soul, and mind, life's deepest and most unsolvable (thankfully!) questions and your personal experiences (wonderful and tragic) in deep, soulful ways in which you can come to most meaningfully embrace your truest self and life in all its beautiful (and tragic) mystery, please listen. Please buy, borrow, rent this book. Whether in the first or second half of life, there are  wonderful insights and many potentially life-changing bits of wisdom within.

Joining Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for this rich and often very personal discussion are Jana Spangler, Jeralee Renshaw, and Scott Turley.

In this, the second installment in a series of co-hosted and co-released shows related to Mormon Apologetics, Mormon Matters and Mormon Stories hosts Dan Wotherspoon and John Dehlin interview and engage with two wonderful, bright, and articulate voices in Mormon Studies: Loyd Isao Ericson, from Greg Kofford Books and co-editor of the volume Perspectives in Mormon Theology: Apologetics, and Bert Fuller, a doctoral candidate at the University of Toronto and a former editor at both BYU’s Religious Studies Center and the Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship.

The podcast begins with an examination of the apologetic endeavor itself, with special attention to the arguments that it is a flawed enterprise from the start as it involves a confusion over what is being defended. It centers on the question of whether religious claims (spiritual claims and experiences that drive religious conversion and growth) can be defended or proven by the tools of scholarship. If the answer is no, if these are two quite different arenas or (in Wittgenstein’s terms, “language games”), then apologists play into and further the category mistakes inherent in the very activity itself. It also challenges common ways in which claims in one arena are said to be probative or at least should be considered in the other one.

In the final two sections, the conversations move more toward the personal experiences of those who become troubled when various truth claims they’ve held tightly to begin to crack and show their limits. Life choices have been made out of one understanding of the world, it’s purposes, and God’s will for the person, so it’s very natural that she or he should feel lost, upset, and even angry, especially if they feel that important information that provides wider contexts for the claims or actual challenges to them have been known by top church leaders and yet withheld (or worse, as in the case of excommunicating or smearing the reputations of those who alert people to these issues). Out of that discussion emerges reflections once more on the role of those who John Dehlin has labeled “neo-apologists” (those who seem to him and others to be becoming somewhat relied upon by the church to stem the tide of defections or calm troubled souls who are in faith crisis or are loved ones of those in such shifting relationship to the church and their previous beliefs) should be, as well as their obligations for full disclosure in the articles and books they write and firesides and public appearances they make of the troubling issues and counter-claims to key LDS teachings.

It’s a three-hour (!) discussion, but it never runs out of energy and models great respect for all in the conversation, whether it is fellow panelists or apologists/neo-apologists or listeners and people for whom these worldview and faith crises are very, very real.

In this, the second installment in a series of co-hosted and co-released shows related to Mormon Apologetics, Mormon Matters and Mormon Stories hosts Dan Wotherspoon and John Dehlin interview and engage with two wonderful, bright, and articulate voices in Mormon Studies: Loyd Isao Ericson, from Greg Kofford Books and co-editor of the volume Perspectives in Mormon Theology: Apologetics, and Bert Fuller, a doctoral candidate at the University of Toronto and a former editor at both BYU’s Religious Studies Center and the Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship.

The podcast begins with an examination of the apologetic endeavor itself, with special attention to the arguments that it is a flawed enterprise from the start as it involves a confusion over what is being defended. It centers on the question of whether religious claims (spiritual claims and experiences that drive religious conversion and growth) can be defended or proven by the tools of scholarship. If the answer is no, if these are two quite different arenas or (in Wittgenstein’s terms, “language games”), then apologists play into and further the category mistakes inherent in the very activity itself. It also challenges common ways in which claims in one arena are said to be probative or at least should be considered in the other one.

In the final two sections, the conversations move more toward the personal experiences of those who become troubled when various truth claims they’ve held tightly to begin to crack and show their limits. Life choices have been made out of one understanding of the world, it’s purposes, and God’s will for the person, so it’s very natural that she or he should feel lost, upset, and even angry, especially if they feel that important information that provides wider contexts for the claims or actual challenges to them have been known by top church leaders and yet withheld (or worse, as in the case of excommunicating or smearing the reputations of those who alert people to these issues). Out of that discussion emerges reflections once more on the role of those who John Dehlin has labeled “neo-apologists” (those who seem to him and others to be becoming somewhat relied upon by the church to stem the tide of defections or calm troubled souls who are in faith crisis or are loved ones of those in such shifting relationship to the church and their previous beliefs) should be, as well as their obligations for full disclosure in the articles and books they write and firesides and public appearances they make of the troubling issues and counter-claims to key LDS teachings.

It’s a three-hour (!) discussion, but it never runs out of energy and models great respect for all in the conversation, whether it is fellow panelists or apologists/neo-apologists or listeners and people for whom these worldview and faith crises are very, very real.

In this, the second installment in a series of co-hosted and co-released shows related to Mormon Apologetics, Mormon Matters and Mormon Stories hosts Dan Wotherspoon and John Dehlin interview and engage with two wonderful, bright, and articulate voices in Mormon Studies: Loyd Isao Ericson, from Greg Kofford Books and co-editor of the volume Perspectives in Mormon Theology: Apologetics, and Bert Fuller, a doctoral candidate at the University of Toronto and a former editor at both BYU’s Religious Studies Center and the Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship.

The podcast begins with an examination of the apologetic endeavor itself, with special attention to the arguments that it is a flawed enterprise from the start as it involves a confusion over what is being defended. It centers on the question of whether religious claims (spiritual claims and experiences that drive religious conversion and growth) can be defended or proven by the tools of scholarship. If the answer is no, if these are two quite different arenas or (in Wittgenstein’s terms, “language games”), then apologists play into and further the category mistakes inherent in the very activity itself. It also challenges common ways in which claims in one arena are said to be probative or at least should be considered in the other one.

In the final two sections, the conversations move more toward the personal experiences of those who become troubled when various truth claims they’ve held tightly to begin to crack and show their limits. Life choices have been made out of one understanding of the world, it’s purposes, and God’s will for the person, so it’s very natural that she or he should feel lost, upset, and even angry, especially if they feel that important information that provides wider contexts for the claims or actual challenges to them have been known by top church leaders and yet withheld (or worse, as in the case of excommunicating or smearing the reputations of those who alert people to these issues). Out of that discussion emerges reflections once more on the role of those who John Dehlin has labeled “neo-apologists” (those who seem to him and others to be becoming somewhat relied upon by the church to stem the tide of defections or calm troubled souls who are in faith crisis or are loved ones of those in such shifting relationship to the church and their previous beliefs) should be, as well as their obligations for full disclosure in the articles and books they write and firesides and public appearances they make of the troubling issues and counter-claims to key LDS teachings.

It’s a three-hour (!) discussion, but it never runs out of energy and models great respect for all in the conversation, whether it is fellow panelists or apologists/neo-apologists or listeners and people for whom these worldview and faith crises are very, very real.

The sexual assault and abuse scandals rocking Hollywood these days, along with the #MeToo campaign that is encouraging victims of unwanted or abusive sexual advances to speak up, make this a prime moment to re-release one of Mormon Matters podcast’s most powerful episodes. Below is a description of the episode.

The April 2012 General Conference featured a terrific talk by President Uchtdorf that reinforces the importance of being forgiving and non-judgmental. He "bottom lines" his message with the following statement: "This topic of judging others could actually be taught in a two-word sermon. When it comes to hating, gossiping, ignoring, ridiculing, holding grudges, or wanting to cause harm, please apply the following: Stop it!" Earlier in the talk, he cited D&C 64:9, "Forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not . . . [stands] condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin."

For the vast majority of Latter-day Saints, such messages are wonderfully received. When it comes to judging and hating and resenting and holding grudges, yes, we should "stop it." Most listeners would also hear in an earnest spirit of striving to do better the scriptural statement that those who fail to forgive others are sinful—perhaps condemned even more than the one who did the offending. But what about abuse victims? What about those who have been physically, sexually, emotionally abused—sometimes relentlessly and violently? How would they hear such messages? Is a warning that they must forgive their abusers, rapists, torturers or else they are even worse sinners than them a good one to hear? Can certain messages that are wonderful in most cases (and no one is imagining that abuse victims were on President Uchtdorf’s mind when he gave his remarks) be heard in spiritually and emotionally damaging ways by those whose self image distorted by internalized shame over the abuse they received as a child or whose lives are in danger or souls are being warped by abuse even in the present? Are there circumstances in which even the beautiful message of "Families Are Forever" be heard as a threat—heard in such a way that a person might express a deliberate choice to live in hell rather than be forced to associate with their abuser(s) in heaven? The answer is yes.

In this episode, LDS therapist Natasha Helfer Parker and blogger and abuse survivor Tresa Brown Edmunds share deep insights about how important it is for all of us, whether it is through official church capacities or friendships or other relationships, to understand and keep in mind the realities of abuse and all the ways it can affect its victims. They discuss the mindset of victims that often includes deeply internalized shame and warped thinking about their own role in the abuse, the effects of trauma and helplessness on physiology and normal bodily responses that manifest in many and varied ways beyond the victim’s control yet somehow still get carelessly talked about (often in wrong-minded gospel frameworks) as if these "problems" are actually the victim’s fault, that if they were only stronger or a better person they would just suck it up and move on.

This discussion is a difficult one but powerful and very important. We encourage you to share it widely.

During the recent October 2017 General Conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Council of Twelve Apostles gave a talk titled, "The Plan and the Proclamation." In it, he framed some of the current trends and laws of today's society as coming from "the world," while Latter-day Saints who are truly converted and actively seeking eternal life and exaltation are those who reject the world in favor of God's plans for us. Key among the things that "the world" is embracing more and more and that Latter-day Saints should reject are "cohabitation without marriage, same-sex marriage, and the raising of children in such relationships." In this battle with "the world," Elder Oaks makes reference to the fact that throughout history many family members have understood God's eternal plan differently, causing conflict. "Such conflict is always so. . . . But whatever the cause of conflict with those who do not understand or believe God's plan, those who do understand are always commanded to choose the Lord's way instead of the world's way." In short, if Latter-day Saints support same-sex marriage or in any way condone cohabitation outside marriage and raising children in such homes, it is God's call to them to stand up for eternal values about family and marriage and God's plan rather than acquiesce to individual or societal pressures.

In the second half of the talk, Elder Oaks shares background and assures Latter-day Saints of the "inspiration" and "revelatory process" at work throughout the writing and revising and releasing in 1995 of "The Family: A Proclamation to the World." He then lifts its teachings up as having been "the basis of Church teaching and practice for the last 22 years and will continue so for the future." He then urges all to "consider it such, teach it, live by it, and you will be blessed as you press forward toward eternal life."

Elder Oaks's talk and its clear stance pitting "converted" Latter-day Saints and those seeking eternal life against "the world" and those church members who have come to believe that the church should change its teachings and stance on same-sex marriage (including rejecting the November 2015 "Policy" that doesn't allow children from same-sex parented homes access to ordinances until after they reach age 18 and speak out against their parents' relationship) has caused quite a bit of consternation among many Mormons. Some have found the message of this talk "the final straw" in their ability to stay engaged with Mormonism in a meaningful way, while many others have felt depressed and deflated, recognizing that because of this talk it will be harder for them among family members who aren't at the same place they are with regard to LGBTQIA issues or to sit in their wards as allies and those who are convinced that these marriages and families should be fully supported within the Church. They hope they might find peace in this time of turmoil, this "new normal" in the church that has and will for some time to come be affected by the stances and tone Elder Oaks took in this talk.

In this two-part episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by three wonderful and insightful active church members--Laura Root, John Gustav-Wrathall, and Richard Ostler--to discuss this talk and its messages and ramifications. How have they been personally affected by its contents and the interactions they've had with other Latter-day Saints since its delivery? How are they finding the strength and courage to remain firm in their personal convictions about these issues that differ from that of Elder Oaks and many in their close circles? What perspectives do they draw on that give them comfort and hope for eventual change within Mormonism on various issues related to same-sex relationships and gender identity? And much more!

Please listen and then share your experiences, questions, and comments in the designated section of the Mormon Matters podcast blog!

During the recent October 2017 General Conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Council of Twelve Apostles gave a talk titled, "The Plan and the Proclamation." In it, he framed some of the current trends and laws of today's society as coming from "the world," while Latter-day Saints who are truly converted and actively seeking eternal life and exaltation are those who reject the world in favor of God's plans for us. Key among the things that "the world" is embracing more and more and that Latter-day Saints should reject are "cohabitation without marriage, same-sex marriage, and the raising of children in such relationships." In this battle with "the world," Elder Oaks makes reference to the fact that throughout history many family members have understood God's eternal plan differently, causing conflict. "Such conflict is always so. . . . But whatever the cause of conflict with those who do not understand or believe God's plan, those who do understand are always commanded to choose the Lord's way instead of the world's way." In short, if Latter-day Saints support same-sex marriage or in any way condone cohabitation outside marriage and raising children in such homes, it is God's call to them to stand up for eternal values about family and marriage and God's plan rather than acquiesce to individual or societal pressures.

In the second half of the talk, Elder Oaks shares background and assures Latter-day Saints of the "inspiration" and "revelatory process" at work throughout the writing and revising and releasing in 1995 of "The Family: A Proclamation to the World." He then lifts its teachings up as having been "the basis of Church teaching and practice for the last 22 years and will continue so for the future." He then urges all to "consider it such, teach it, live by it, and you will be blessed as you press forward toward eternal life."

Elder Oaks's talk and its clear stance pitting "converted" Latter-day Saints and those seeking eternal life against "the world" and those church members who have come to believe that the church should change its teachings and stance on same-sex marriage (including rejecting the November 2015 "Policy" that doesn't allow children from same-sex parented homes access to ordinances until after they reach age 18 and speak out against their parents' relationship) has caused quite a bit of consternation among many Mormons. Some have found the message of this talk "the final straw" in their ability to stay engaged with Mormonism in a meaningful way, while many others have felt depressed and deflated, recognizing that because of this talk it will be harder for them among family members who aren't at the same place they are with regard to LGBTQIA issues or to sit in their wards as allies and those who are convinced that these marriages and families should be fully supported within the Church. They hope they might find peace in this time of turmoil, this "new normal" in the church that has and will for some time to come be affected by the stances and tone Elder Oaks took in this talk.

In this two-part episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by three wonderful and insightful active church members--Laura Root, John Gustav-Wrathall, and Richard Ostler--to discuss this talk and its messages and ramifications. How have they been personally affected by its contents and the interactions they've had with other Latter-day Saints since its delivery? How are they finding the strength and courage to remain firm in their personal convictions about these issues that differ from that of Elder Oaks and many in their close circles? What perspectives do they draw on that give them comfort and hope for eventual change within Mormonism on various issues related to same-sex relationships and gender identity? And much more!

Please listen and then share your experiences, questions, and comments in the designated section of the Mormon Matters podcast blog!

Doing "apologetics," which means to "speak in defense," has been a longstanding tradition within Christianity, including Mormonism. Some forms of apologetics are often labeled "negative," meaning the attempt by those writing is foremost to take on the arguments of critics. "Positive" apologetics, on the other hand, is characterized as efforts to shore up some aspect of the gospel or church by means of sharing different angles on that issue or practice, or new, possibly larger, perspectives that frame that problem in a way that makes it more understandable as an action or teaching that comes from human foibles rather than a knock-down criticism of the Mormon enterprise as a whole. In this latter emphasis, apologists are acknowledging that an issue exists or a problem is brewing while seeking to show that Mormonism has within it resources for addressing the issue, and that these need only to be brought forward to meet the challenge.

For many Latter-day Saints, apologetics has been a wonderful boon. They crave to know that scholars and others are actively working to provide framings for those things that have begun to trouble them. For many others, however, apologetics carries a negative connotation. Some say that truth "needs no defense," or they point out that things of the Spirit are not going to yield well to questions and issues raised because of the findings of secular disciplines, hence on over emphasis on historical or rational inquiry is to make a category mistake. But more than anything else, the criticism labeled against apologetics focuses on the claim that an apologist works the question backwards: she or he knows the truth already, and then constructs arguments designed to shore that up; they are not conducting genuine inquiry.

In this episode, which is being co-released by both the Mormon Matters and Mormon Stories podcasts, Dan Wotherspoon and John Dehlin speak with Brian Birch and Patrick Mason about the history and development of Mormon Apologetics. Where has it been, and where is it headed now. In particular, John proposes a new term, "neo-apologist," to describe a group of Latter-day Saint writers, including Mason, who, while not ignoring problems, seem to shift the meaning of various terms or truth claims, or in some other way change the definitions of Mormon doctrines. A vigorous discussion ensues!

Doing "apologetics," which means to "speak in defense," has been a longstanding tradition within Christianity, including Mormonism. Some forms of apologetics are often labeled "negative," meaning the attempt by those writing is foremost to take on the arguments of critics. "Positive" apologetics, on the other hand, is characterized as efforts to shore up some aspect of the gospel or church by means of sharing different angles on that issue or practice, or new, possibly larger, perspectives that frame that problem in a way that makes it more understandable as an action or teaching that comes from human foibles rather than a knock-down criticism of the Mormon enterprise as a whole. In this latter emphasis, apologists are acknowledging that an issue exists or a problem is brewing while seeking to show that Mormonism has within it resources for addressing the issue, and that these need only to be brought forward to meet the challenge.

For many Latter-day Saints, apologetics has been a wonderful boon. They crave to know that scholars and others are actively working to provide framings for those things that have begun to trouble them. For many others, however, apologetics carries a negative connotation. Some say that truth "needs no defense," or they point out that things of the Spirit are not going to yield well to questions and issues raised because of the findings of secular disciplines, hence on over emphasis on historical or rational inquiry is to make a category mistake. But more than anything else, the criticism labeled against apologetics focuses on the claim that an apologist works the question backwards: she or he knows the truth already, and then constructs arguments designed to shore that up; they are not conducting genuine inquiry.

In this episode, which is being co-released by both the Mormon Matters and Mormon Stories podcasts, Dan Wotherspoon and John Dehlin speak with Brian Birch and Patrick Mason about the history and development of Mormon Apologetics. Where has it been, and where is it headed now. In particular, John proposes a new term, "neo-apologist," to describe a group of Latter-day Saint writers, including Mason, who, while not ignoring problems, seem to shift the meaning of various terms or truth claims, or in some other way change the definitions of Mormon doctrines. A vigorous discussion ensues!

In his new book, That We May Be One: A Gay Mormon's Perspective on Faith and Family (Published by Deseret Book), Tom Christofferson shares his story of coming to terms with being gay, leaving Mormonism for several decades, and then deciding to reunite with his beloved faith community. Along the way, it tells of his remarkable family and their reactions to his coming out and fully embracing as part of their family his longtime partner, a ward and stake in New Canaan, Connecticut, that welcomed him and his partner with open arms even though there was no sense, given their relationship, that they'd join the church, and a wrenching decision that followed when Tom felt called to seek baptism again and enter into full fellowship with the Saints. The book, and this interview, shares intimate peeks at Tom's spiritual life, his hopes for what might open up within Mormonism as he shares his story so publicly. Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon also queries Tom about difficult doctrines in Mormonism that can and seem to present obstacles to the church's fully embracing LGBTQIA members, as well as worries from people who know Tom's basic story but fear it will be used by certain LDS parents as the new standard for their own gay children: "If Tom can return to stay Mormon and be celibate, so can you." 

Please listen and enjoy getting to know this wonderful, spiritual, open-hearted man.

The October 2017 General Conference season is upon us. Having started last weekend with the Women's session, it continues September 30th and October 1st with four general and one priesthood session. For many who have undergone (or are undergoing) a shift of faith, engaging with general conference can sometimes be a difficult experience. Because of new perspectives we've gained, it's impossible to avoid certain changes in attitude toward conference talks and proceedings. For many of us, these are healthy shifts, emerging from spiritual growth and increasing confidence in what we believe God is calling us toward. Yet it takes quite a while to "normalize" in this new way of viewing conference and the role and abilities of prophets in guiding the church or serving as God's mouthpieces. We can listen respectfully, yet with eyes wide open to the human beings called to these roles and the mixture that is their words and ideas in conjunction with what they sense God is leading them to speak about. But for others of us, especially those in the early years of a faith shift, or for whom some very large change has come into their life or who have become quite activated about certain topics, conference talks that don't match what we'd ideally like to hear can be very upsetting. 

In this episode, we are treated to thoughts about conference from Carol Lynn Pearson, Patrick Mason, and Mark Crego, three wonderful, experienced church members and conference watchers whose experiences over the years have matched those of many listeners. At times each has felt in great harmony with what is shared in conference, at other times quite devastated by it. But by pushing through, they have gained good awareness of what conference is and is not, what we might reasonably expect from it, and how to celebrate the wonderful talks and not over-react to the ones that disappoint or can even feel to them spiritually dangerous. We hope through listening you can have an engaged and constructive conference weekend. 

On 25 August, the Church announced a new plan for Relief Society and Priesthood meetings to begin January 2018. Instead of focusing two weeks each month on lessons drawn from a teachings of the prophets manual (this year studying President Gordon B. Hinckley), those two weeks will focus on recent conference addresses, but will allow each individual Relief Society or quorum to choose which ones to focus on. The first week of the month will now emphasize counseling together about local issues and needs. And the fourth week will take on a topic outlined by the general church leadership, with the November and May issues of the Liahona and Ensign alerting us to those topics and providing guides and ideas for studying them.

This episode gathers three wonderful church watchers to talk together about this new plan. Stephen Carter, Cynthia Winward, and Walt Wood join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon to discuss how each of these elements of the new plan might unfold. What do they think are the best features? What are their hopes and dreams for those? What drawbacks do they foresee, and how might we mitigate against them?

In the second half, Stephen lays out two different models for church teaching--one that we usually default to in our gatherings together, which he calls the "hermetic" model; the other, which only occasionally rises up but which he hopes can become much more the norm, that he calls the "exploratory" model. The whole panel then reacts to this new ideal and shares ways they can see those of us in the internet Mormon world aiding in its coming into being.

This short episode, a conversation between Natasha Helfer Parker and Dan Wotherspoon, offers descriptions and registration details about the upcoming Mormon Matters Retreat, to be held in Salt Lake City October 13th–15th. You can find registration information at the Mormon Matters website (click the Mormon Matters Events button, which is along the top menu).

Schedule:

Friday (13th): 6 to 10 pm

Saturday (14th): 9 am to 9 pm or later
(includes lunch and dinner, and entertainment afterward—much of it starring you!)

Sunday (15th): 9 am to 5 pm (lunch included)

Cost: $200 per person; $350 per couple (even two friends or family members deciding to register together). This is a significant registration fee reduction from previous Mormon Matters and other Open Stories Foundation retreats.

If you cannot afford to pay to attend, or can only swing some of the cost, please inquire abut partial or full scholarships and volunteering. We are working hard to encourage people to donate funds for others to attend, and we are happy to put you on a waiting list to see what might unfold.

We look forward to seeing you at this event! We know it will be something everyone will really enjoy as well as receiving great perspectives, renewed energies, and making new friends!

This is an encore presentation of a podcast conversation we had in April 2011 on the heels of the then-recent Japanese earthquakes and tsunamis. With Hurricane Harvey now devastating Houston and surrounding areas, it's as timely now as it was then. Are there theologically and pragmatically healthy discussions to be had within Mormonism about nature, and especially natural disasters. Often we hear claims that the upheaval and suffering caused by earthquakes, hurricanes, volcanic eruptions, tornados, famine, and the like are “God’s will,” that God is sending a message through these events. And certainly there is certainly scriptural precedent for that view, and even modern prophetic utterance. But are there other, more nuanced and perhaps more ennobling ways to frame natural disasters within a theistic worldview? And if there are ways of seeing these upheavals that can lead to increased faith or broadened and deepened spirituality or love for God and the world, are any of these healthy approaches hinted at or embedded in particular Mormon views and practices?

We know you’ll enjoy this dynamic discussion between Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists George Handley, Duane Jeffery, and Joanna Brooks. We encourage you to also visit and contribute to this episode’s blog discussion.

This is an encore presentation of a podcast conversation we had in April 2011 on the heels of the then-recent Japanese earthquakes and tsunamis. With Hurricane Harvey now devastating Houston and surrounding areas, it's as timely now as it was then. Are there theologically and pragmatically healthy discussions to be had within Mormonism about nature, and especially natural disasters. Often we hear claims that the upheaval and suffering caused by earthquakes, hurricanes, volcanic eruptions, tornados, famine, and the like are “God’s will,” that God is sending a message through these events. And certainly there is certainly scriptural precedent for that view, and even modern prophetic utterance. But are there other, more nuanced and perhaps more ennobling ways to frame natural disasters within a theistic worldview? And if there are ways of seeing these upheavals that can lead to increased faith or broadened and deepened spirituality or love for God and the world, are any of these healthy approaches hinted at or embedded in particular Mormon views and practices?

We know you’ll enjoy this dynamic discussion between Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists George Handley, Duane Jeffery, and Joanna Brooks. We encourage you to also visit and contribute to this episode’s blog discussion.

This three-part episode features Kim Puzey and Lisa Scott, two brilliant and insightful people who are deeply familiar with both wilderness living and faith journeying. Drawing on their backgrounds as guides for wilderness experiences (some chosen by participants, while others were offered as options for adjudicated youth who otherwise would have been sent to jail), Kim and Lisa share lessons not only related to survival in wilderness areas and that help us understand the growth and development of most of those participating in these adventures, but also from their own lives as faith explorers, walkers of spiritual and cultural terrain not always visited by the majority of Latter-day Saints. Both are wonderfully articulate and brave in their storytelling about what it's like to be "off the map."

How do "wilderness" and the "wilderness of faith journeys" relate? Quite a bit! We anticipate you'll be captivated by this discussion!

This three-part episode features Kim Puzey and Lisa Scott, two brilliant and insightful people who are deeply familiar with both wilderness living and faith journeying. Drawing on their backgrounds as guides for wilderness experiences (some chosen by participants, while others were offered as options for adjudicated youth who otherwise would have been sent to jail), Kim and Lisa share lessons not only related to survival in wilderness areas and that help us understand the growth and development of most of those participating in these adventures, but also from their own lives as faith explorers, walkers of spiritual and cultural terrain not always visited by the majority of Latter-day Saints. Both are wonderfully articulate and brave in their storytelling about what it's like to be "off the map."

How do "wilderness" and the "wilderness of faith journeys" relate? Quite a bit! We anticipate you'll be captivated by this discussion!

This three-part episode features Kim Puzey and Lisa Scott, two brilliant and insightful people who are deeply familiar with both wilderness living and faith journeying. Drawing on their backgrounds as guides for wilderness experiences (some chosen by participants, while others were offered as options for adjudicated youth who otherwise would have been sent to jail), Kim and Lisa share lessons not only related to survival in wilderness areas and that help us understand the growth and development of most of those participating in these adventures, but also from their own lives as faith explorers, walkers of spiritual and cultural terrain not always visited by the majority of Latter-day Saints. Both are wonderfully articulate and brave in their storytelling about what it's like to be "off the map."

How do "wilderness" and the "wilderness of faith journeys" relate? Quite a bit! We anticipate you'll be captivated by this discussion!

In her very important new book, Revelatory Events: Three Case Studies of the Emergence of New Spiritual Paths, historian and religion scholar Ann Taves offers a naturalistic framing for revelation, in this case extending it to the complex issue of founding figures of a religion or spiritual communities and their close followers believing the sources of the revelations were outside of themselves. In the three case studies Taves examines, Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism, claimed visitations from God and angels, and produced revelations that came in the voice of "the Lord"; Helen Schucman, producer of the Course in Miracles and several supporting works, claimed to be scribe for "the Voice" (believing it to be the voice of Jesus Christ); and Bill Wilson, co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous and his associates, though not claiming the words of the group's Big Book resulted in direct revelation from a specific personality, felt under the inspiration of some Higher Power. Like Smith and Schucman, however, Wilson shared in some circles about an encounter with a Divine source in which he felt "called" to and in that experience also came to believe he would be empowered to "dry up all the drunks in the world." Employing her considerable skills as an historian, with a special emphasis on religion in America, and drawing from research and findings from neuroscience and several cognitive science and social science fields, Taves puts forth a plausible hypothesis about the various mechanisms at play within the minds of the founders of these traditions/paths and their early collaborators that might explain their claims of revelations from suprahuman sources without positing the need for separate spiritual and material worlds, while at the same time not claiming that experiences such as these were/are delusions. It is a fascinating book that mines rich and varied fields and source materials, and introduces these to findings that are emerging in studies of psychology, social psychology, brain science, hypnotism, creativity, organizational emergence, and more.

In this four-part episode, neuroscientist and lifelong Mormon Michael Adam Ferguson joins Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in interviewing and interacting with Ann Taves about her book, its hypotheses, her sense of the promises and limits to the fields of study that she is working in, and her own way of making sense of and honoring revelatory events and the power of religion while she is working and positing explanations within naturalistic frameworks.

Part 1 (Ep. 403) primarily introduces the book and its scope, and particularly the stories of and key moments within the founding of Alcoholics Anonymous and the emergence of A Course in Miracles. It also draws a few early comparisons between Joseph Smith and the founders of those spiritual paths.

Part 2 (Ep. 404) explores Taves' hypotheses about what is going on within the minds of these founding figures during the times they believe they are in direct communication with suprahuman personalities, as well as during the early periods of their groups' establishment.

Part 3 (Ep. 405) features very active discussions of diverse questions and topic areas, ranging from why might a Divine source "reveal" quite different things about the nature of Reality, to the difference between practical and theoretical metaphysics, to the qualities that might lead one to be classified as a "spiritual genius," to group genius, to delusional experiences, and more.

Part 4 (Ep. 406) reflects on the probative value of Taves work and the research she cites, as well as directions she hopes to take these things in order to ascertain the scope of their explanatory powers, and then moves into more "pastoral" areas as the panelists assess the value of religious symbolism, praxis, communities, and other gifts of religion and religious systems even if naturalistic arguments, with its claims of a non-dualistic reality, were to win the day.

In her very important new book, Revelatory Events: Three Case Studies of the Emergence of New Spiritual Paths, historian and religion scholar Ann Taves offers a naturalistic framing for revelation, in this case extending it to the complex issue of founding figures of a religion or spiritual communities and their close followers believing the sources of the revelations were outside of themselves. In the three case studies Taves examines, Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism, claimed visitations from God and angels, and produced revelations that came in the voice of "the Lord"; Helen Schucman, producer of the Course in Miracles and several supporting works, claimed to be scribe for "the Voice" (believing it to be the voice of Jesus Christ); and Bill Wilson, co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous and his associates, though not claiming the words of the group's Big Book resulted in direct revelation from a specific personality, felt under the inspiration of some Higher Power. Like Smith and Schucman, however, Wilson shared in some circles about an encounter with a Divine source in which he felt "called" to and in that experience also came to believe he would be empowered to "dry up all the drunks in the world." Employing her considerable skills as an historian, with a special emphasis on religion in America, and drawing from research and findings from neuroscience and several cognitive science and social science fields, Taves puts forth a plausible hypothesis about the various mechanisms at play within the minds of the founders of these traditions/paths and their early collaborators that might explain their claims of revelations from suprahuman sources without positing the need for separate spiritual and material worlds, while at the same time not claiming that experiences such as these were/are delusions. It is a fascinating book that mines rich and varied fields and source materials, and introduces these to findings that are emerging in studies of psychology, social psychology, brain science, hypnotism, creativity, organizational emergence, and more.

In this four-part episode, neuroscientist and lifelong Mormon Michael Adam Ferguson joins Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in interviewing and interacting with Ann Taves about her book, its hypotheses, her sense of the promises and limits to the fields of study that she is working in, and her own way of making sense of and honoring revelatory events and the power of religion while she is working and positing explanations within naturalistic frameworks.

Part 1 (Ep. 403) primarily introduces the book and its scope, and particularly the stories of and key moments within the founding of Alcoholics Anonymous and the emergence of A Course in Miracles. It also draws a few early comparisons between Joseph Smith and the founders of those spiritual paths.

Part 2 (Ep. 404) explores Taves' hypotheses about what is going on within the minds of these founding figures during the times they believe they are in direct communication with suprahuman personalities, as well as during the early periods of their groups' establishment.

Part 3 (Ep. 405) features very active discussions of diverse questions and topic areas, ranging from why might a Divine source "reveal" quite different things about the nature of Reality, to the difference between practical and theoretical metaphysics, to the qualities that might lead one to be classified as a "spiritual genius," to group genius, to delusional experiences, and more.

Part 4 (Ep. 406) reflects on the probative value of Taves work and the research she cites, as well as directions she hopes to take these things in order to ascertain the scope of their explanatory powers, and then moves into more "pastoral" areas as the panelists assess the value of religious symbolism, praxis, communities, and other gifts of religion and religious systems even if naturalistic arguments, with its claims of a non-dualistic reality, were to win the day.

In her very important new book, Revelatory Events: Three Case Studies of the Emergence of New Spiritual Paths, historian and religion scholar Ann Taves offers a naturalistic framing for revelation, in this case extending it to the complex issue of founding figures of a religion or spiritual communities and their close followers believing the sources of the revelations were outside of themselves. In the three case studies Taves examines, Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism, claimed visitations from God and angels, and produced revelations that came in the voice of "the Lord"; Helen Schucman, producer of the Course in Miracles and several supporting works, claimed to be scribe for "the Voice" (believing it to be the voice of Jesus Christ); and Bill Wilson, co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous and his associates, though not claiming the words of the group's Big Book resulted in direct revelation from a specific personality, felt under the inspiration of some Higher Power. Like Smith and Schucman, however, Wilson shared in some circles about an encounter with a Divine source in which he felt "called" to and in that experience also came to believe he would be empowered to "dry up all the drunks in the world." Employing her considerable skills as an historian, with a special emphasis on religion in America, and drawing from research and findings from neuroscience and several cognitive science and social science fields, Taves puts forth a plausible hypothesis about the various mechanisms at play within the minds of the founders of these traditions/paths and their early collaborators that might explain their claims of revelations from suprahuman sources without positing the need for separate spiritual and material worlds, while at the same time not claiming that experiences such as these were/are delusions. It is a fascinating book that mines rich and varied fields and source materials, and introduces these to findings that are emerging in studies of psychology, social psychology, brain science, hypnotism, creativity, organizational emergence, and more.

In this four-part episode, neuroscientist and lifelong Mormon Michael Adam Ferguson joins Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in interviewing and interacting with Ann Taves about her book, its hypotheses, her sense of the promises and limits to the fields of study that she is working in, and her own way of making sense of and honoring revelatory events and the power of religion while she is working and positing explanations within naturalistic frameworks.

Part 1 (Ep. 403) primarily introduces the book and its scope, and particularly the stories of and key moments within the founding of Alcoholics Anonymous and the emergence of A Course in Miracles. It also draws a few early comparisons between Joseph Smith and the founders of those spiritual paths.

Part 2 (Ep. 404) explores Taves' hypotheses about what is going on within the minds of these founding figures during the times they believe they are in direct communication with suprahuman personalities, as well as during the early periods of their groups' establishment.

Part 3 (Ep. 405) features very active discussions of diverse questions and topic areas, ranging from why might a Divine source "reveal" quite different things about the nature of Reality, to the difference between practical and theoretical metaphysics, to the qualities that might lead one to be classified as a "spiritual genius," to group genius, to delusional experiences, and more.

Part 4 (Ep. 406) reflects on the probative value of Taves work and the research she cites, as well as directions she hopes to take these things in order to ascertain the scope of their explanatory powers, and then moves into more "pastoral" areas as the panelists assess the value of religious symbolism, praxis, communities, and other gifts of religion and religious systems even if naturalistic arguments, with its claims of a non-dualistic reality, were to win the day.

In her very important new book, Revelatory Events: Three Case Studies of the Emergence of New Spiritual Paths, historian and religion scholar Ann Taves offers a naturalistic framing for revelation, in this case extending it to the complex issue of founding figures of a religion or spiritual communities and their close followers believing the sources of the revelations were outside of themselves. In the three case studies Taves examines, Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism, claimed visitations from God and angels, and produced revelations that came in the voice of "the Lord"; Helen Schucman, producer of the Course in Miracles and several supporting works, claimed to be scribe for "the Voice" (believing it to be the voice of Jesus Christ); and Bill Wilson, co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous and his associates, though not claiming the words of the group's Big Book resulted in direct revelation from a specific personality, felt under the inspiration of some Higher Power. Like Smith and Schucman, however, Wilson shared in some circles about an encounter with a Divine source in which he felt "called" to and in that experience also came to believe he would be empowered to "dry up all the drunks in the world." Employing her considerable skills as an historian, with a special emphasis on religion in America, and drawing from research and findings from neuroscience and several cognitive science and social science fields, Taves puts forth a plausible hypothesis about the various mechanisms at play within the minds of the founders of these traditions/paths and their early collaborators that might explain their claims of revelations from suprahuman sources without positing the need for separate spiritual and material worlds, while at the same time not claiming that experiences such as these were/are delusions. It is a fascinating book that mines rich and varied fields and source materials, and introduces these to findings that are emerging in studies of psychology, social psychology, brain science, hypnotism, creativity, organizational emergence, and more.

In this four-part episode, neuroscientist and lifelong Mormon Michael Adam Ferguson joins Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in interviewing and interacting with Ann Taves about her book, its hypotheses, her sense of the promises and limits to the fields of study that she is working in, and her own way of making sense of and honoring revelatory events and the power of religion while she is working and positing explanations within naturalistic frameworks.

Part 1 (Ep. 403) primarily introduces the book and its scope, and particularly the stories of and key moments within the founding of Alcoholics Anonymous and the emergence of A Course in Miracles. It also draws a few early comparisons between Joseph Smith and the founders of those spiritual paths.

Part 2 (Ep. 404) explores Taves' hypotheses about what is going on within the minds of these founding figures during the times they believe they are in direct communication with suprahuman personalities, as well as during the early periods of their groups' establishment.

Part 3 (Ep. 405) features very active discussions of diverse questions and topic areas, ranging from why might a Divine source "reveal" quite different things about the nature of Reality, to the difference between practical and theoretical metaphysics, to the qualities that might lead one to be classified as a "spiritual genius," to group genius, to delusional experiences, and more.

Part 4 (Ep. 406) reflects on the probative value of Taves work and the research she cites, as well as directions she hopes to take these things in order to ascertain the scope of their explanatory powers, and then moves into more "pastoral" areas as the panelists assess the value of religious symbolism, praxis, communities, and other gifts of religion and religious systems even if naturalistic arguments, with its claims of a non-dualistic reality, were to win the day.

This two-part episode features a wonderful conversation with Thomas Jay Oord, an author, teacher, theologian, and elder in the Church of the Nazarene. Jim McLachlan and Brittney Hartley join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in dialogue with Oord, exploring various ways he views God and us as human beings that have great similarities with Mormon ideas (though they also explore key differences), but positions that also have left Tom in somewhat lonely territory within his faith community. These are also positions, along with his tremendous popularity with students, that have led to his being laid off by Northwest Nazarene University, where he has been teaching for fifteen years. As Tom and the panel reflect upon this painful exile, they note how he is in company with many other faithful and committed teachers and theologians within both wider Christianity and Mormonism who have faced similar dismissals.

But don’t listen to this episode because of this difficulty! Listen instead for the gorgeous and compelling theology Tom presents, especially as he speaks about Love being the primary attribute of God. Along the way, learn about the open theism movement of which he is often grouped, but with whom he differs in key areas. Hear his views about many topics, and when they resonate (and how) with Mormonism, but also his gentle questioning of them and also things about LDS theology and organizational structures that he struggles to see how he might embrace. Hear him reflect on being somewhat marginalized within his church and see if his thinking about "why" he chooses to stay very much engaged with it.

This is a wonderful and engaging conversation. Warning to all who listen, however: You will likely very soon be spending money on one or more of his books! (Which, hopefully, if you do, you will click on the links here on Mormon Matters, and will in that way be supporting the podcast through a percentage it will earn from shopping Amazon through the links or the button on the right side of the page!)

This two-part episode features a wonderful conversation with Thomas Jay Oord, an author, teacher, theologian, and elder in the Church of the Nazarene. Jim McLachlan and Brittney Hartley join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in dialogue with Oord, exploring various ways he views God and us as human beings that have great similarities with Mormon ideas (though they also explore key differences), but positions that also have left Tom in somewhat lonely territory within his faith community. These are also positions, along with his tremendous popularity with students, that have led to his being laid off by Northwest Nazarene University, where he has been teaching for fifteen years. As Tom and the panel reflect upon this painful exile, they note how he is in company with many other faithful and committed teachers and theologians within both wider Christianity and Mormonism who have faced similar dismissals.

But don’t listen to this episode because of this difficulty! Listen instead for the gorgeous and compelling theology Tom presents, especially as he speaks about Love being the primary attribute of God. Along the way, learn about the open theism movement of which he is often grouped, but with whom he differs in key areas. Hear his views about many topics, and when they resonate (and how) with Mormonism, but also his gentle questioning of them and also things about LDS theology and organizational structures that he struggles to see how he might embrace. Hear him reflect on being somewhat marginalized within his church and see if his thinking about "why" he chooses to stay very much engaged with it.

This is a wonderful and engaging conversation. Warning to all who listen, however: You will likely very soon be spending money on one or more of his books! (Which, hopefully, if you do, you will click on the links here on Mormon Matters, and will in that way be supporting the podcast through a percentage it will earn from shopping Amazon through the links or the button on the right side of the page!)

The 2017 Salt Lake Sunstone Symposium convenes in two weeks (July 26–29), and this episode introduces some of its highlights. But far more than just that, two of Sunstone's leaders—executive director and event coordinator Lindsay Hansen Park, and Sunstone magazine editor Stephen Carter—speak candidly about the new directions Sunstone has been moving in lately, and the new identity it is embracing. And it is also an identity that many listeners to this podcast will find fascinating and empowering for themselves in their individual lives within the Mormon tradition. Rejecting the foundation's past attempts to try to bend its focus to convince people that it is not primarily is a group of Mormon misfits who negatively influence the wider LDS Church, it has completely tossed damaging scripts that play over and over in wider Mormonism about who is "in," who is "out," who is "heretic," "apostate," or a "real" Mormon, etc. Instead it is embracing the motto that "There are many ways to Mormon." It recognizes the individuality of paths within the Mormon tradition and invites all to come and share about their journeys, beliefs, peculiarities, and spiritual cores. If you're able to speak well and respectfully of others, Sunstone welcomes you to its gatherings and to submit pieces to be considered for publication. It will no longer play identity games that ultimately only benefit institutions rather than individuals. And just as Sunstone embraces all ways to Mormon—active and fully engaged in the LDS church, post-Mormon, ex-Mormon, fundamentalist Mormon, member of the Community of Christ or groups who separate from the Salt Lake headquartered church, or individuals who are in any other way shaped in some way by the Mormon tradition might think of themselves—might we also consider this attitude and path for ourselves? What might our Mormon journeys look like if we truly internalized the message that our way of "Mormon-ing" is just fine.

Listen in as this approach and embrace of every path (whether others consider it "fringe" or not) is laid out. Along the way you'll learn more about the history of the Sunstone organization and its development alongside key moments in the past four-plus decades of Mormon history, including those brought on by the emergence of the internet and other things that have led it to seek new ways of connecting with Mormons. And, if you're interested in learning more about its 2017 Salt Lake symposium and some of its key sessions, and other details such as how to register and how to purchase audio of the sessions should you not be able to attend (or that you missed because there were so many good ones happening concurrently!), you will not be disappointed. Those come in the final third of the episode.

This two-part episode is a co-release with the Mormon Stories Podcast. It is a discussion that took place on 29 June 2017 in front of a live internet audience featuring John and Margi Dehlin interviewing (and conveying audience comments and questions for) Jeralee Renshaw, Mark Crego, and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon. Jeralee, Mark, and Dan are three of the moderators of the Facebook group, "A Thoughtful Faith Support Group" as well actively engaged members of the LDS Church. The interactions between the panel, hosts, and audience range from subjects such as "How is it you have managed to stay actively (and happily) engaged with Mormonism while knowing what you know of the issues and complexities that trouble so many people?", to questions about the Facebook group and interactions there, to assessments of whether or not it is more or less difficult to remain engaged as a Mormon with nuanced views at this time than in the past, and much more.

This two-part episode is a co-release with the Mormon Stories Podcast. It is a discussion that took place on 29 June 2017 in front of a live internet audience featuring John and Margi Dehlin interviewing (and conveying audience comments and questions for) Jeralee Renshaw, Mark Crego, and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon. Jeralee, Mark, and Dan are three of the moderators of the Facebook group, "A Thoughtful Faith Support Group" as well actively engaged members of the LDS Church. The interactions between the panel, hosts, and audience range from subjects such as "How is it you have managed to stay actively (and happily) engaged with Mormonism while knowing what you know of the issues and complexities that trouble so many people?", to questions about the Facebook group and interactions there, to assessments of whether or not it is more or less difficult to remain engaged as a Mormon with nuanced views at this time than in the past, and much more.

This episode features two wonderful teachers, pastors, scholars, and clergy from non-Mormon faith traditions sharing their own spiritual journeys and the ways that God has moved in them throughout their lives and ministries. Neither shies away from sharing about their most difficult moments, the pain and confusion, the depression, and many other lonely and hopeless feelings they experienced along the way. In the process, we discover just how unique but also universal the experience of God-wrestling and faith transitioning/deepening really is. And it is a rich blessing to us as Latter-day Saints to hear these journeys and their reflections with different vocabularies and new ways of describing the things of their lives and spiritual walks.

Following the telling of their stories, Father Tom Roberts, an ordained priest in the Orthodox tradition, and Father Martin Arredondo an ordained priest in the Independent Catholic tradition, join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a discussion of the phenomenon of faith growth and God’s call to us. They share advice that helped them along the way and/or that they share with those who seek them out now to share their confusion and hurt as they go through their own dark nights and times when God seems distant. Most of all, we get to hear again and again from two powerful men doing the work of God as they understand it to be. May we all seek to find and answer our individual callings, as well.

This episode features two wonderful teachers, pastors, scholars, and clergy from non-Mormon faith traditions sharing their own spiritual journeys and the ways that God has moved in them throughout their lives and ministries. Neither shies away from sharing about their most difficult moments, the pain and confusion, the depression, and many other lonely and hopeless feelings they experienced along the way. In the process, we discover just how unique but also universal the experience of God-wrestling and faith transitioning/deeping really is. And it is a rich blessing to us as Latter-day Saints to hear these journeys and their reflections with different vocabularies and new ways of describing the things of their lives and spiritual walks.

Following the telling of their stories, Father Tom Roberts, an ordained priest in the Orthodox tradition, and Father Martin Arredondo an ordained priest in the Independent Catholic tradition, join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a discussion of the phenomenon of faith growth and God’s call to us. They share advice that helped them along the way and/or that they share with those who seek them out now to share their confusion and hurt as they go through their own dark nights and times when God seems distant. Most of all, we get to hear again and again from two powerful men doing the work of God as they understand it to be. May we all seek to find and answer our individual callings, as well.

Most of us have someone special in our lives, or with whom we've become acquainted through reading or listening to, whose spiritual insights, wisdom, compassion, and ways of carrying themselves and meeting the world stand out for us. Some will truly be spiritual mentors for us, others more like heroes. But no matter if it is an intimate personal relationship or not, we are grateful for their influence and for the way they've helped us imagine a life and relationship with God or the universe, and shown us approaches to questions and difficulties, that we can aspire to find for (and within) ourselves. 

In this Mormon Matters episode, host Dan Wotherspoon interviews three friends—Jana Riess, Bridget Smith, and Charles Randall Paul—about their mentor/hero. What is it about them that they most admire? How has this person's influence shaped their own spiritual journey? What ways of being or insights did they share that most affects their own life and thought? What books or works of these people should podcast listeners find if they want to explore more about this person?

Please enjoy this wonderful discussion!

Living faith is a growing faith. It is faith in a living God. It is trust in a trustworthy being (or beings). It is striving to align ourselves with a will conveyed to us by a wise and loving God. In many ways, through a person's experiences with the Divine, living faith can be "certain" about the existence, goodness, wisdom, and compassion of this Source, but so often we want more. We want exactness. We want to be able to describe and be certain about every detail about God, the Plan for us, how to be "saved," etc. And we are even encouraged to strive for this kind of certainty. But this encouragement is too often misunderstood as a striving for a certainty of "this" or "that," or a certainty of "what," but is that as important as a certainty that comes with a relationship with a "Who" that surpasses all other beings? Can our striving to be "right about God" and these other things actually hinder our ability to truly know God? 

Christian theologian and author Peter Enns thinks so, and many Latter-day Saints through their own faith journeys and evolution have also come to feel less certain about "certainty about" God and more certain about paths God wants them to follow, paths that they feel are leading them to truly embrace the full and abundant life that Christianity, including Mormonism, teaches us about.

In this two-part episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by four wonderful and thoughtful Latter-day Saints—Jeff Christensen, Doug Christensen, Jana Spangler, and Jay Griffith—for a discussion of these and several other issues related to the problems of "certainty," some of it based upon Enns' book, The Sin of Certainty. It's a fantastic discussion, rich in insight, and includes stories from each of their own lives and faith journeys. Don't miss it!

Living faith is a growing faith. It is faith in a living God. It is trust in a trustworthy being (or beings). It is striving to align ourselves with a will conveyed to us by a wise and loving God. In many ways, through a person's experiences with the Divine, living faith can be "certain" about the existence, goodness, wisdom, and compassion of this Source, but so often we want more. We want exactness. We want to be able to describe and be certain about every detail about God, the Plan for us, how to be "saved," etc. And we are even encouraged to strive for this kind of certainty. But this encouragement is too often misunderstood as a striving for a certainty of "this" or "that," or a certainty of "what," but is that as important as a certainty that comes with a relationship with a "Who" that surpasses all other beings? Can our striving to be "right about God" and these other things actually hinder our ability to truly know God? 

Christian theologian and author Peter Enns thinks so, and many Latter-day Saints through their own faith journeys and evolution have also come to feel less certain about "certainty about" God and more certain about paths God wants them to follow, paths that they feel are leading them to truly embrace the full and abundant life that Christianity, including Mormonism, teaches us about.

In this two-part episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by four wonderful and thoughtful Latter-day Saints—Jeff Christensen, Doug Christensen, Jana Spangler, and Jay Griffith—for a discussion of these and several other issues related to the problems of "certainty," some of it based upon Enns' book, The Sin of Certainty. It's a fantastic discussion, rich in insight, and includes stories from each of their own lives and faith journeys. Don't miss it!

The title of this three-part episode says quite a bit about it. Several weeks ago, Mormon Matters released a conversation, “Gaining Spiritual Confidence,” featuring three men sharing their journeys toward and insights about a strong sense of their own spiritual connection with God/Spirit. It was terrific—but as a listener pointed out, if featured three men and wondered how the conversation might have been different if it had also featured women’s voices. Hence this conversation was born. Three powerful women, activists, seekers, thinkers, and Mormons—Julie de Azevedo Hanks, Bryndis Roberts, and Jenne Alderks join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a deep and far-ranging discussion about their personal spiritual odysseys and the various obstacles that often arise in the path toward spiritual confidence that are specific to women. And Mormon women, especially. They discuss the dual messaging women receive about being confident and yet, within Mormonism, always falling under the stewardship of men, the problem of embodied Gods who are all male (though Mormon leaders are nodding more and more toward a Heavenly Mother, or the use of “Heavenly Parents” when speaking about God, it’s not anywhere close to sufficient), about the way many LDS men prefer women to speak softly and in less-than-direct ways (think “Primary” voice). 

Whereas the earlier episode on spiritual confidence focused primarily on personal confidence, this conversation spends a good amount of time on confidence within “communities,” including discussions of how to speak up, act, prepare for, and what to keep in mind, when we find ourselves in conflict with others. It also includes a section on the importance of spiritual confidence—a strong and clear connection with God and/or our sense of “calling”—when we step into an activist’s shoes.

You will not be able to stop listening to this conversation. It’s truly terrific, with great energy and diversity of life paths and perspectives. Tune in!

The title of this three-part episode says quite a bit about it. Several weeks ago, Mormon Matters released a conversation, “Gaining Spiritual Confidence,” featuring three men sharing their journeys toward and insights about a strong sense of their own spiritual connection with God/Spirit. It was terrific—but as a listener pointed out, if featured three men and wondered how the conversation might have been different if it had also featured women’s voices. Hence this conversation was born. Three powerful women, activists, seekers, thinkers, and Mormons—Julie de Azevedo Hanks, Bryndis Roberts, and Jenne Alderks join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a deep and far-ranging discussion about their personal spiritual odysseys and the various obstacles that often arise in the path toward spiritual confidence that are specific to women. And Mormon women, especially. They discuss the dual messaging women receive about being confident and yet, within Mormonism, always falling under the stewardship of men, the problem of embodied Gods who are all male (though Mormon leaders are nodding more and more toward a Heavenly Mother, or the use of “Heavenly Parents” when speaking about God, it’s not anywhere close to sufficient), about the way many LDS men prefer women to speak softly and in less-than-direct ways (think “Primary” voice).

Whereas the earlier episode on spiritual confidence focused primarily on personal confidence, this conversation spends a good amount of time on confidence within “communities,” including discussions of how to speak up, act, prepare for, and what to keep in mind, when we find ourselves in conflict with others. It also includes a section on the importance of spiritual confidence—a strong and clear connection with God and/or our sense of “calling”—when we step into an activist’s shoes.

You will not be able to stop listening to this conversation. It’s truly terrific, with great energy and diversity of life paths and perspectives. Tune in!

The title of this three-part episode says quite a bit about it. Several weeks ago, Mormon Matters released a conversation, “Gaining Spiritual Confidence,” featuring three men sharing their journeys toward and insights about a strong sense of their own spiritual connection with God/Spirit. It was terrific—but as a listener pointed out, if featured three men and wondered how the conversation might have been different if it had also featured women’s voices. Hence this conversation was born. Three powerful women, activists, seekers, thinkers, and Mormons—Julie de Azevedo Hanks, Bryndis Roberts, and Jenne Alderks join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a deep and far-ranging discussion about their personal spiritual odysseys and the various obstacles that often arise in the path toward spiritual confidence that are specific to women. And Mormon women, especially. They discuss the dual messaging women receive about being confident and yet, within Mormonism, always falling under the stewardship of men, the problem of embodied Gods who are all male (though Mormon leaders are nodding more and more toward a Heavenly Mother, or the use of “Heavenly Parents” when speaking about God, it’s not anywhere close to sufficient), about the way many LDS men prefer women to speak softly and in less-than-direct ways (think “Primary” voice).

Whereas the earlier episode on spiritual confidence focused primarily on personal confidence, this conversation spends a good amount of time on confidence within “communities,” including discussions of how to speak up, act, prepare for, and what to keep in mind, when we find ourselves in conflict with others. It also includes a section on the importance of spiritual confidence—a strong and clear connection with God and/or our sense of “calling”—when we step into an activist’s shoes.

You will not be able to stop listening to this conversation. It’s truly terrific, with great energy and diversity of life paths and perspectives. Tune in!

Our faith lives, including how we orient toward the world, God/Spirit (or whatever we consider the highest center(s) of value and power), and ourselves, are fed by many things. Some we can easily identify. Others—perhaps the majority, and especially the ones that are wired into various neural pathways—are hidden, unconsciously held, and only show themselves to us through inner work.

In this two-part episode, we examine some of these harder-to-spot orientations through a schema partially developed by Russell Osmond, Ph.D., and then apply it to Mormons and various aspects of Mormonism. In particular, we look at four questions/quadrants—Why, What, How, and Who—that all of us are familiar with even though we likely don't recognize how we orient toward one of them more than others. Nor have we likely analyzed how that orientation (especially when ours is different than those of friends, family, and co-workers) has contributed to some of the frustrations and struggles in communicating with them about the importance of certain things that are obvious to us. Each orientation carries its own gifts, but each also entails certain blindspots with respect to the others. When we can recognize and understand our brain's own wiring and preferred mode for meeting key aspects of life and our world, as well as recognizing those same things in others, we can move meaningfully toward greater understanding, bridge building, and problem solving. And who wouldn't want that? Especially in the faith arena?

In this edition of the Mormon Matters podcast, Russ Osmond and Henning Mueller join host Dan Wotherspoon in an insightful and engaging introduction and discussion of the four-quadrant model and its revelations about different brain vocabularies, paying special attention to its effects on faith and faith journeys. Why does new information or changes in policy cause deep crisis for some but not for others? How can understanding the gifts of other vocabularies help alleviate some of this suffering and lead us to fuller understandings of ourselves and others, as well as the way God or Spirit or the Universe works. This model is also fascinating in helping explain various phases of Mormon history, as well as what is occurring within the church right now. Henning adds great insight to all of this from his perspective as a German citizen and student of European religion and contemporary trends within Mormonism. He also, near the end of Part 2, offers a wonderful description of what it means to have a "living God," and how those who associate with the traditions of the Restoration should embrace the principle of continuing revelation in far bolder ways than most currently do. You won't want to miss that section, nor this whole conversation between two old friends and an interested and enthusiastic moderator.

Our faith lives, including how we orient toward the world, God/Spirit (or whatever we consider the highest center(s) of value and power), and ourselves, are fed by many things. Some we can easily identify. Others—perhaps the majority, and especially the ones that are wired into various neural pathways—are hidden, unconsciously held, and only show themselves to us through inner work.

In this two-part episode, we examine some of these harder-to-spot orientations through a schema partially developed by Russell Osmond, Ph.D., and then apply it to Mormons and various aspects of Mormonism. In particular, we look at four questions/quadrants—Why, What, How, and Who—that all of us are familiar with even though we likely don't recognize how we orient toward one of them more than others. Nor have we likely analyzed how that orientation (especially when ours is different than those of friends, family, and co-workers) has contributed to some of the frustrations and struggles in communicating with them about the importance of certain things that are obvious to us. Each orientation carries its own gifts, but each also entails certain blindspots with respect to the others. When we can recognize and understand our brain's own wiring and preferred mode for meeting key aspects of life and our world, as well as recognizing those same things in others, we can move meaningfully toward greater understanding, bridge building, and problem solving. And who wouldn't want that? Especially in the faith arena?

In this edition of the Mormon Matters podcast, Russ Osmond and Henning Mueller join host Dan Wotherspoon in an insightful and engaging introduction and discussion of the four-quadrant model and its revelations about different brain vocabularies, paying special attention to its effects on faith and faith journeys. Why does new information or changes in policy cause deep crisis for some but not for others? How can understanding the gifts of other vocabularies help alleviate some of this suffering and lead us to fuller understandings of ourselves and others, as well as the way God or Spirit or the Universe works. This model is also fascinating in helping explain various phases of Mormon history, as well as what is occurring within the church right now. Henning adds great insight to all of this from his perspective as a German citizen and student of European religion and contemporary trends within Mormonism. He also, near the end of Part 2, offers a wonderful description of what it means to have a "living God," and how those who associate with the traditions of the Restoration should embrace the principle of continuing revelation in far bolder ways than most currently do. You won't want to miss that section, nor this whole conversation between two old friends and an interested and enthusiastic moderator.

On March 11, 2017, the LDS Church announced it is dropping Varsity and Venturer Scouts as the primary program for its U.S. and Canadian young men ages 14–18 effective at the end of the 2017 calendar year. In its place, the Church is asking leaders of these groups to now enact the guidelines and suggestions for youth this age that are already in place in the rest of the world. At the moment, the church has made no change to the Cub and Boy Scout programs for these North American youth ages 8 to 14. Reactions to the news ranged from surprise and confusion to disappointment among some and celebration among many others. What is the church saying about this change? What led to it? What other factors besides those in the press releases might also be at play here?

In this episode, we turn for perspectives and processing of this news to four experienced church members who, from various roles and vantage points, all have a great deal of experience with the scouting program, including at these older ages. Chris Tucker, Cynthia Winward, Matt Jones, and Walt Wood join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a far-ranging discussion of scouting within the church and possible reasons church leaders felt the program wasn't meeting the needs of those boys ages 14 to 18. They discuss everything from the rule changes the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) made with regard to gay leaders and the inclusion of girls in the Venturing program, to the unwieldy nature of BSA rules and regulations and intense trainings and time commitments required of leaders, who, for the most part, consider scouting just another "calling" and don't truly embrace the whole BSA program, to the changing interests and demands on youth, especially as they enter their mid-teens. They discuss possible financial factors such as lawsuits and financial settlements from injuries the occur during high adventure and other activities to the inequality between the monies spent on and emphases on Young Men's vs Young Women's programs and awards. They ask and speculate on possible factors for the change, such as the decline in the number of young men choosing to serve missions, and perhaps a desire to focus the boys' gaze even more directly upon just the church and its social networks. The discuss the "achievement" culture within the church and world, with its pros and cons. Though the discussion here was prompted by the news of the change in the program, it goes beyond its scope to many interesting and important deeper cultural and societal issues. It is a great conversation!

A MORMON MATTERS RETREAT!

“Understanding and Navigating Healthy Perspectives and Journeys within Mormonism”
Led by Dan Wotherspoon, Ph.D.
Natasha Helfer Parker, LCMFT, CST,

14 – 16 AUGUST 2017, SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH

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Many of us find ourselves a bit outside the Mormon norm but still feel committed to continue our journeys as engaged members of the church. This retreat is focused on building community among and strengthening Mormons like us in the following ways:

• Navigating faith development in adulthood, including the integration of new and enriching perspectives within a less-traditional Mormon paradigm
• Creating and nurturing healthy relationships with family, friends, and loved ones, especially in light of faith and worldview differences
• Finding ways to full and healthy sexuality
• Raising children in ways that encourage them to have confidence and depth as they negotiate various Mormon terrains
• Finding friends/community who have similar outlooks and can offer support

____________

Register for the retreat: click here. (After registering, participants will receive more detailed information about venue, parking, lunch and dinner options, etc.)

Cost: $375 per person; $550 per couple (even two friends deciding to register together.

If you cannot afford to pay to attend, or can only swing some of the cost, please inquire abut partial or full scholarships and volunteering. We are working hard to encourage people to donate funds for others to attend, and we are happy to put you on a waiting list to see what might unfold.

Schedule:
Friday (14th): 6 to 10 pm
Saturday (15th): 9 am to 9 pm or later
(includes lunch and dinner, and entertainment afterward—much of it starring you!)
Sunday (16th): 9 am to 5 pm (lunch included)

Contact and Further Information:

For questions about registration, logistics, etc.:
Lorri Wotherspoon: lorspoon@gmail.com

To learn more about retreat content, purposes, what to expect, or to inquire about possible scholarships that would allow you to attend:
Dan Wotherspoon: dan.wotherspoon@me.com
Natasha Helfer Parker: nhelferparker@gmail.com

We look forward to seeing you at this event! I know it will be something everyone will really enjoy as well as receiving great perspectives, renewed energies, and making new friends!

Note: This will be the first of two Mormon Matters retreats in Salt Lake City this year. The other one will be held 20-22 October. More information about that will be forthcoming.

All religions point adherents toward gaining knowledge and insights for themselves through their own spiritual dives. Religious cultures, however, often (overtly but more often subtly) put a premium upon group cohesion, following rules and counsel from leaders or elders, staying on the well-worn path, and so forth. These cultures encourage one to rise up to the level of the collective, but then discourage her or him from too much exploring. (There be monsters out there! Stay safe!)

How can we gain the confidence to explore Spirit as fully as our traditions invite us to? How do we overcome the cultural and psychological barriers that sometimes discourage us? What is the experience of direct spiritual experience like? How do we seek it? Must we be at the end of our spiritual ropes before it can enter in? As we experience it, what should we expect? What, exactly, is the "experimenting" section of Alma 32 really saying? Spiritual journeying is hard, but why do so many who have gotten the taste of their own eternal nature and spiritual belonging keep at it, even with all the difficult things one must confront as we move ahead?

This episode features two insightful and powerful spiritual explorers, Billy Phillips and Thomas Wirthlin McConkie, along with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, speaking about all of the above and more. What emerges is not exactly a step-by-step guide to finding one's own spiritual confidence so much as a chance to immerse oneself in a conversation among three people for whom this transition to trusting their own experiences even in the face of occasional discouragement from other Latter-day Saints has been and still is a wonderful and worthy pursuit.

All religions point adherents toward gaining knowledge and insights for themselves through their own spiritual dives. Religious cultures, however, often (overtly but more often subtly) put a premium upon group cohesion, following rules and counsel from leaders or elders, staying on the well-worn path, and so forth. These cultures encourage one to rise up to the level of the collective, but then discourage her or him from too much exploring. (There be monsters out there! Stay safe!)

How can we gain the confidence to explore Spirit as fully as our traditions invite us to? How do we overcome the cultural and psychological barriers that sometimes discourage us? What is the experience of direct spiritual experience like? How do we seek it? Must we be at the end of our spiritual ropes before it can enter in? As we experience it, what should we expect? What, exactly, is the "experimenting" section of Alma 32 really saying? Spiritual journeying is hard, but why do so many who have gotten the taste of their own eternal nature and spiritual belonging keep at it, even with all the difficult things one must confront as we move ahead?

This episode features two insightful and powerful spiritual explorers, Billy Phillips and Thomas Wirthlin McConkie, along with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, speaking about all of the above and more. What emerges is not exactly a step-by-step guide to finding one's own spiritual confidence so much as a chance to immerse oneself in a conversation among three people for whom this transition to trusting their own experiences even in the face of occasional discouragement from other Latter-day Saints has been and still is a wonderful and worthy pursuit. 

Covenanting is a huge feature in Mormon theology and group life. Beginning at age eight with baptism, and extending through the temple endowment and sealing rites, Latter-day Saints make a lot of covenants. Sundays build into the sacrament ritual the chance to "renew" the covenants one has made. For many Mormons, making these covenants are among the most sacred events of their lives, inspiring them to try to live up to the promises contained within each covenant. For others, especially those whose faith has shifted in the years following the time they made covenants, the burden of having covenanted to do something that they are no longer as certain about, or perhaps even now reject, can be crushing. Some feel regret that the "Mormon track" has members make covenants at very young ages, prior to the typical times when complexity enters one's worldview. "If only I'd known what I know now, I would have chosen differently." Others feel they were underprepared for the specifics of the covenants they made in the temple, and that when they reached that stage of the endowment they went ahead with them partly because of family and loved ones who were present and expecting that of them. Mormonism teaches that when things are done through proper priesthood authority, "what is bound on earth is bound in heaven." How, then, should someone whose journey is taking them into great complexity regarding Mormonism relate to such weighty covenants?

In this episode, Charles Randall Paul, Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, and Joseph Stanford, join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a wonderful and intense query into covenanting within Mormonism and whether or not it, or God, has an expectation of personal growth and change that would naturally affect our views and understandings of covenants we have previously made, about what exactly are we "bound" to with regard to our covenants, and several other aspects of this topic. The panel shares their own experiences and thoughts about their covenanting pasts and relationships with them now, and seeks to celebrate best thinking and ideas about us as covenanters that doesn't depend upon static relationships with God and "etched in stone at the time one covenanted" understandings of this important element of the Mormon tradition.

Covenanting is a huge feature of Mormon theology and group life. Beginning at age eight with baptism, and extending through the temple endowment and sealing rites, Latter-day Saints make a lot of covenants. Sundays build into the sacrament ritual the chance to "renew" the covenants one has made. For many Mormons, making these covenants are among the most sacred events of their lives, inspiring them to try to live up to the promises contained within each covenant. For others, especially those whose faith has shifted in the years following the time they made covenants, the burden of having covenanted to do something that they are no longer as certain about, or perhaps even now reject, can be crushing. Some feel regret that the "Mormon track" has members make covenants at very young ages, prior to the typical times when complexity enters one's worldview. "If only I'd known what I know now, I would have chosen differently." Others feel they were underprepared for the specifics of the covenants they made in the temple, and that when they reached that stage of the endowment they went ahead with them partly because of family and loved ones who were present and expecting that of them. Mormonism teaches that when things are done through proper priesthood authority, "what is bound on earth is bound in heaven." How, then, should someone whose journey is taking them into great complexity regarding Mormonism relate to such weighty covenants?

In this episode, Charles Randall Paul, Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, and Joseph Stanford, join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a wonderful and intense query into covenanting within Mormonism and whether or not it, or God, has an expectation of personal growth and change that would naturally affect our views and understandings of covenants we have previously made, about what exactly are we "bound" to with regard to our covenants, and several other aspects of this topic. The panel shares their own experiences and thoughts about their covenanting pasts and relationships with them now, and seeks to celebrate best thinking and ideas about us as covenanters that doesn't depend upon static relationships with God and "etched in stone at the time one covenanted" understandings of this important element of the Mormon tradition.

Ritual is strange—or so it seems to our rational minds—yet, strangely, for many of us who participate in these often highly stylized and repetitive actions, we feel better afterward. Why is this so? Is there a method to ritual's madness that helps explain this phenomena? I think so. 

In a departure from the usual Mormon Matters formula of a panel discussion, this episode features me, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, reading a short article I wrote for the Fall 2016 issue of Sunstone magazine, "Why Ritual 'Makes Sense'." In it I address various aspects of ritual and how, even though rituals can be extremely diverse in nature, they share key commonalities. Rituals, through their various means, attempt to help us access more fully some of the energies and their attendant empowerment for us that are all around us but often overlooked due to the strength of the sensory input from our bodies and the clutter of thoughts and concerns going through our brains. How do they do this? Why is it important for us to seek methods that can bring us into these kinds of experiences? I hope you'll enjoy these ideas and this side trip away from the panel format. I promise, though, that we'll be back to that with the next episode.

Mormonism provides numerous opportunities for us to teach each other. But, as we know, many times our Sunday classes fall short of being wonderful, too often failing to convey new or important insights, and hardly ever yielding transformative classroom experiences. How can we change this? How can we as teachers or class members move us into more enriching territory?

A second issue arises for teachers and class members whose faith journeys have led them to more complex views of LDS history, theology, or culture than is typically presented in the lesson manuals or anticipated by others in their various replies to questions asked during the class session. How can we who fit within this category, with integrity, teach within the church? How can we signal our willingness to engage the lesson manual materials while still seeking to reach a bit higher or offer perspectives that might lead to new thinking or deeper examination? How can we negotiate the expectations we sense from many to deliver the "safe" or the "usual" material with our own sense of being called to try for more?

This two-part episode tackles these issues and more, and features two wonderful and experienced and thoughtful teachers within Mormonism, Kristine Haglund and Stephen Carter, along with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon. What are their best ideas for structuring classroom experiences? For preparing ourselves to teach within the church or share from the seats? For overcoming the fear of possibly falling flat on our face and/or being released for overreaching and offering challenging perspectives that those in leadership feel are a bit too much? What are some of the ways they have negotiated these hurdles in their own gospel lives? What great classroom experiences do they point to as highlights and approaches that might inspire all of us to work to be more effective gospel teachers?

Mormonism provides numerous opportunities for us to teach each other. But, as we know, many times our Sunday classes fall short of being wonderful, too often failing to convey new or important insights, and hardly ever yielding transformative classroom experiences. How can we change this? How can we as teachers or class members move us into more enriching territory? 

A second issue arises for teachers and class members whose faith journeys have led them to more complex views of LDS history, theology, or culture than is typically presented in the lesson manuals or anticipated by others in their various replies to questions asked during the class session. How can we who fit within this category, with integrity, teach within the church? How can we signal our willingness to engage the lesson manual materials while still seeking to reach a bit higher or offer perspectives that might lead to new thinking or deeper examination? How can we negotiate the expectations we sense from many to deliver the "safe" or the "usual" material with our own sense of being called to try for more?

This two-part episode tackles these issues and more, and features two wonderful and experienced and thoughtful teachers within Mormonism, Kristine Haglund and Stephen Carter, along with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon. What are their best ideas for structuring classroom experiences? For preparing ourselves to teach within the church or share from the seats? For overcoming the fear of possibly falling flat on our face and/or being released for overreaching and offering challenging perspectives that those in leadership feel are a bit too much? What are some of the ways they have negotiated these hurdles in their own gospel lives? What great classroom experiences do they point to as highlights and approaches that might inspire all of us to work to be more effective gospel teachers?

The April 2017 General Conference season is upon us. Having started last weekend on March 25th with the Women's session, it continues April 1st and 2nd with four general and one priesthood session. For many who have undergone (or are undergoing) a shift of faith, engaging with general conference can sometimes be a difficult experience. Because of new perspectives we've gained, it's impossible to avoid certain changes in attitude toward conference talks and proceedings. For many of us, these are healthy shifts, emerging from spiritual growth and increasing confidence in what we believe God is calling us toward. Yet it takes quite a while to "normalize" in this new way of viewing conference and the role and abilities of prophets in guiding the church or serving as God's mouthpieces. We can listen respectfully, yet with eyes wide open to the human beings called to these roles and the mixture that is their words and ideas in conjunction with what they sense God is leading them to speak about. But for others of us, especially those in the early years of a faith shift, or for whom some very large change has come into their life or who have become quite activated about certain topics, conference talks that don't match what we'd ideally like to hear can be very upsetting. 

In this episode, we are treated to thoughts about conference from Carol Lynn Pearson, Patrick Mason, and Mark Crego, three wonderful, experienced church members and conference watchers whose experiences over the years have matched those of many listeners. At times each has felt in great harmony with what is shared in conference, at other times quite devastated by it. But by pushing through, they have gained good awareness of what conference is and is not, what we might reasonably expect from it, and how to celebrate the wonderful talks and not over-react to the ones that disappoint or can even feel to them spiritually dangerous. We hope through listening you can have an engaged and constructive conference weekend. 

Encore presentation of a great discussion of all things Easter first released 12 March 2013.

With a forty-day Lenten season that flows to a conclusion in Holy Week and its beautiful rituals, for many Christians, Easter (even more than Christmas) marks the spiritual high point of the year. At no other time do sacred time and space collapse quite so easily, with events and liturgies and encouragements that lead people in sustained reflection about not only their gratitude for Christ and their beliefs and hopes about salvation, but even more generally, the renewal of aspirations, plans, and energies. While Mormons join with the rest of the Christian world in basic beliefs about Christ’s resurrection and central role in salvation, and they, too, celebrate Easter, they don’t do it in quite as sustained a manner as many other Christian traditions who carry into their worship centuries-long traditions and fully developed music and liturgies and portals into the mysteries of the resurrection miracle.

In this five-part series, the same amazing panel who shared about Christmas—Jared Anderson, Zina Petersen, and Kristine Haglund—join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon on a journey through scripture, history, worship, and celebration related to Easter. Designed to be informative about elements with which Mormons in general are not all that familiar, it also explores different presentations of Christ’s final acts on earth in the various Gospels and scriptural tradition, the range of views about what “resurrection” means, how Christian and Pagan traditions interacted to create the mix of elements we find in Easter season, and how these elements combined to create some of the world’s greatest music, poetry, and pageantry. But it also explores personal realms. How do each of the panelists integrate a love for Easter themes, claims, symbols, and rituals with their own empirically oriented and critical brains? What is happening in their hearts and minds as they celebrate Easter?

The podcast totals nearly five hours. It’s a huge bite, and it can certainly be taken slowly.

Encore presentation of a great discussion of all things Easter first released 12 March 2013.

With a forty-day Lenten season that flows to a conclusion in Holy Week and its beautiful rituals, for many Christians, Easter (even more than Christmas) marks the spiritual high point of the year. At no other time do sacred time and space collapse quite so easily, with events and liturgies and encouragements that lead people in sustained reflection about not only their gratitude for Christ and their beliefs and hopes about salvation, but even more generally, the renewal of aspirations, plans, and energies. While Mormons join with the rest of the Christian world in basic beliefs about Christ’s resurrection and central role in salvation, and they, too, celebrate Easter, they don’t do it in quite as sustained a manner as many other Christian traditions who carry into their worship centuries-long traditions and fully developed music and liturgies and portals into the mysteries of the resurrection miracle.

In this five-part series, the same amazing panel who shared about Christmas—Jared Anderson, Zina Petersen, and Kristine Haglund—join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon on a journey through scripture, history, worship, and celebration related to Easter. Designed to be informative about elements with which Mormons in general are not all that familiar, it also explores different presentations of Christ’s final acts on earth in the various Gospels and scriptural tradition, the range of views about what “resurrection” means, how Christian and Pagan traditions interacted to create the mix of elements we find in Easter season, and how these elements combined to create some of the world’s greatest music, poetry, and pageantry. But it also explores personal realms. How do each of the panelists integrate a love for Easter themes, claims, symbols, and rituals with their own empirically oriented and critical brains? What is happening in their hearts and minds as they celebrate Easter?

The podcast totals nearly five hours. It’s a huge bite, and it can certainly be taken slowly.

Encore presentation of a great discussion of all things Easter first released 12 March 2013.

With a forty-day Lenten season that flows to a conclusion in Holy Week and its beautiful rituals, for many Christians, Easter (even more than Christmas) marks the spiritual high point of the year. At no other time do sacred time and space collapse quite so easily, with events and liturgies and encouragements that lead people in sustained reflection about not only their gratitude for Christ and their beliefs and hopes about salvation, but even more generally, the renewal of aspirations, plans, and energies. While Mormons join with the rest of the Christian world in basic beliefs about Christ’s resurrection and central role in salvation, and they, too, celebrate Easter, they don’t do it in quite as sustained a manner as many other Christian traditions who carry into their worship centuries-long traditions and fully developed music and liturgies and portals into the mysteries of the resurrection miracle.

In this five-part series, the same amazing panel who shared about Christmas—Jared Anderson, Zina Petersen, and Kristine Haglund—join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon on a journey through scripture, history, worship, and celebration related to Easter. Designed to be informative about elements with which Mormons in general are not all that familiar, it also explores different presentations of Christ’s final acts on earth in the various Gospels and scriptural tradition, the range of views about what “resurrection” means, how Christian and Pagan traditions interacted to create the mix of elements we find in Easter season, and how these elements combined to create some of the world’s greatest music, poetry, and pageantry. But it also explores personal realms. How do each of the panelists integrate a love for Easter themes, claims, symbols, and rituals with their own empirically oriented and critical brains? What is happening in their hearts and minds as they celebrate Easter?

The podcast totals nearly five hours. It’s a huge bite, and it can certainly be taken slowly.

Encore presentation of a great discussion of all things Easter first released 12 March 2013.

With a forty-day Lenten season that flows to a conclusion in Holy Week and its beautiful rituals, for many Christians, Easter (even more than Christmas) marks the spiritual high point of the year. At no other time do sacred time and space collapse quite so easily, with events and liturgies and encouragements that lead people in sustained reflection about not only their gratitude for Christ and their beliefs and hopes about salvation, but even more generally, the renewal of aspirations, plans, and energies. While Mormons join with the rest of the Christian world in basic beliefs about Christ’s resurrection and central role in salvation, and they, too, celebrate Easter, they don’t do it in quite as sustained a manner as many other Christian traditions who carry into their worship centuries-long traditions and fully developed music and liturgies and portals into the mysteries of the resurrection miracle.

In this five-part series, the same amazing panel who shared about Christmas—Jared Anderson, Zina Petersen, and Kristine Haglund—join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon on a journey through scripture, history, worship, and celebration related to Easter. Designed to be informative about elements with which Mormons in general are not all that familiar, it also explores different presentations of Christ’s final acts on earth in the various Gospels and scriptural tradition, the range of views about what “resurrection” means, how Christian and Pagan traditions interacted to create the mix of elements we find in Easter season, and how these elements combined to create some of the world’s greatest music, poetry, and pageantry. But it also explores personal realms. How do each of the panelists integrate a love for Easter themes, claims, symbols, and rituals with their own empirically oriented and critical brains? What is happening in their hearts and minds as they celebrate Easter?

The podcast totals nearly five hours. It’s a huge bite, and it can certainly be taken slowly.

Encore presentation of a great discussion of all things Easter first released 12 March 2013.

With a forty-day Lenten season that flows to a conclusion in Holy Week and its beautiful rituals, for many Christians, Easter (even more than Christmas) marks the spiritual high point of the year. At no other time do sacred time and space collapse quite so easily, with events and liturgies and encouragements that lead people in sustained reflection about not only their gratitude for Christ and their beliefs and hopes about salvation, but even more generally, the renewal of aspirations, plans, and energies. While Mormons join with the rest of the Christian world in basic beliefs about Christ’s resurrection and central role in salvation, and they, too, celebrate Easter, they don’t do it in quite as sustained a manner as many other Christian traditions who carry into their worship centuries-long traditions and fully developed music and liturgies and portals into the mysteries of the resurrection miracle.

In this five-part series, the same amazing panel who shared about Christmas—Jared Anderson, Zina Petersen, and Kristine Haglund—join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon on a journey through scripture, history, worship, and celebration related to Easter. Designed to be informative about elements with which Mormons in general are not all that familiar, it also explores different presentations of Christ’s final acts on earth in the various Gospels and scriptural tradition, the range of views about what “resurrection” means, how Christian and Pagan traditions interacted to create the mix of elements we find in Easter season, and how these elements combined to create some of the world’s greatest music, poetry, and pageantry. But it also explores personal realms. How do each of the panelists integrate a love for Easter themes, claims, symbols, and rituals with their own empirically oriented and critical brains? What is happening in their hearts and minds as they celebrate Easter?

The podcast totals nearly five hours. It’s a huge bite, and it can certainly be taken slowly.

John B. Cobb is one of the world's most renowned theologians and philosophers, noted especially for his Christological pluralism and work across many disciplines, and lately in major ways in ecological sustainability circles. His writing and thinking are marvelously clear and powerful, continuing even today at age 92. We are thrilled that just last week he agreed to sit down with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and great friend of the show and frequent panelist James McLachlan for a brief discussion of his life and the development of his thought, and then a much more extensive focus on his latest book, Jesus' Abba: The God Who Has Not Failed. 

Jesus consistently referred to God the Father by the Aramaic term, "Abba," which is very intimate, indicating an unconditionally loving stance from the father to the child. Shortly after Jesus' death, Christianity began to employ monarchial titles to God--Lord, King, King of Kings, etc.--emphasizing God's sovereignty and power. This shift, coupled with all the wrong turns brought on by modernity (individualism, industrialization, professionalization, rationalization, pervasive technologies), have all but eliminated the use and feel of "Abba" in today's world. For Cobb, Jesus's "Abba" understanding led him to begin to look at others in the world through God's eyes. Abba is a God who loves ALL of us, not just those on "our" side. As such, we must meet the world with radical love; we must love even our enemies. God loves even sinners. Living out of this consciousness, Jesus rejected the compromises involved in accommodation of Roman rule in Palestine, but he likewise rejected the path of revolt, rightly predicting what eventually happened in Jerusalem when that strategy was tried. Instead, Jesus lived out a "third" option. And he lived it right on through to the cross. It was so powerful, many people were moved then, and throughout history (think of someone like St. Francis of Assisi), and even more recently (Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr., along with many, many Christians who have an Abba understanding of God). They live powerfully even as they live counter-culturally. In them, and should society shift its values away from money, power, and all the other distractions and selfishness of this world, Abba God has not failed.

Tune in to hear from this most powerful thinker who has been and is changing the world person by person, book by book and whose work and influence is growing in places as far away as China and is inspiring great movements in ecological activism. It's a wonderful treat to have him engaging us in Mormonism.

As Richard Bushman mentions in this podcast episode, one of the very first things Joseph Smith did in announcing himself to the world was to take on the title of "translator." What an audacious thing, especially as Mormonism associates translation with the gift of seership, even proclaiming that "a seer is greater than a prophet" (Mosiah 8:15). Since declaring himself a translator, and yet it being apparent that he knew no ancient languages, exactly what Smith meant by "translation" has been an ongoing debate both within and without the faith. Though never a particularly settled question, it has in recent years become a topic of renewed fascination within Mormon scholarly circles, and with the release in the past 18 months of images and more information of the seerstone Smith used in translating the Book of Mormon, it has caught on as a fresh area of inquiry among non-specialists as well. In addition new angles of inquiry are emerging that examine the notion of translation far beyond the confines of Book of Mormon production.

Recognizing this renewed interest and the fascination of the approaches being taken, the Utah State University religious studies program, in partnership with the Faith Matters Foundation, are convening a conference on 16 March 2017 at Utah State exploring these emerging perspectives with great energy. This episode of Mormon Matters hosts three of the conference's participants, Richard Bushman, Samuel Brown, and Philip Barlow, to tease some of the new perspectives finding some footing and why discussions like this are important and fascinating both to scholars and lay church members. The episode, of course, mentions the conference a lot, but even for someone not able to even consider attending, there are wonderful insights aplenty as host Dan Wotherspoon turned these three great thinkers loose to talk about things for which they have great passion. 

We think you'll love listening in, and after you do, we hope you'll add your thoughts in the comments section!

Every person is different, and this is completely true with children, as well. Often we as parents will assume our children are picking up ideas, teachings, and various behavioral cues from us, our families, and our church in the way we hope they are, but this certainly isn't always true. And certain children will be very sensitive to the times when there is a mismatch between their own experience and what they believe is going on all around them. For instance--and this is an example from one of the stories shared in this podcast--a child might feel he or she is not receiving answers to his or her prayers the way everyone else does, causing this child to wonder what's wrong with them, if they are still worthy of love, and so forth. So how do we parent and grandparent and aunt and uncle and mentor in ways that teach values and solid ethics and faith, and at the same time communicate that these are not one-size-fits-all things? And that this is not only okay, but it is wonderful! How do we empower them with a sense of trust in themselves, and help them find their own best way to access God/Spirit?

In this two-part episode, Caleb Jones, Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, and Jordan Harmon join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon to talk about child raising within a context of faith and values. In this case, one of the contexts for this parenting is Mormonism, which is wonderful in so many ways, but how might we assist them in still finding their own unique faith connections within this sometimes overwhelming church and culture? Guided by Caleb's story with his oldest son, and ending with a thorough discussion of his and his wife Irene's ten one-liners that often guide their parenting and work their way into conversations with their children, the panelists and host draw from their backgrounds (two are therapists, all are parents with children at various ages) to share insights, personal stories, and ideas for conscious parenting that seeks as a primary goal to always assist children in feeling completely loved, heard, and cared for by them as well as God.

Please listen and then share your ideas and tips in the comments section!

Every person is different, and this is completely true with children, as well. Often we as parents will assume our children are picking up ideas, teachings, and various behavioral cues from us, our families, and our church in the way we hope they are, but this certainly isn't always true. And certain children will be very sensitive to the times when there is a mismatch between their own experience and what they believe is going on all around them. For instance--and this is an example from one of the stories shared in this podcast--a child might feel he or she is not receiving answers to his or her prayers the way everyone else does, causing this child to wonder what's wrong with them, if they are still worthy of love, and so forth. So how do we parent and grandparent and aunt and uncle and mentor in ways that teach values and solid ethics and faith, and at the same time communicate that these are not one-size-fits-all things? And that this is not only okay, but it is wonderful! How do we empower them with a sense of trust in themselves, and help them find their own best way to access God/Spirit?

In this two-part episode, Caleb Jones, Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, and Jordan Harmon join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon to talk about child raising within a context of faith and values. In this case, one of the contexts for this parenting is Mormonism, which is wonderful in so many ways, but how might we assist them in still finding their own unique faith connections within this sometimes overwhelming church and culture? Guided by Caleb's story with his oldest son, and ending with a thorough discussion of his and his wife Irene's ten one-liners that often guide their parenting and work their way into conversations with their children, the panelists and host draw from their backgrounds (two are therapists, all are parents with children at various ages) to share insights, personal stories, and ideas for conscious parenting that seeks as a primary goal to always assist children in feeling completely loved, heard, and cared for by them as well as God. 

Please listen and then share your ideas and tips in the comments section!

We all sort of "know" but still very often forget that God and religious and spiritual truths are couched in symbols, language, propositions, metaphors, stories, and ritual actions, meaning that, by definition, a religion's primary languages themselves are not meant to be taken literally. Words and stories and teachings are not the things in themselves but rather pointers toward them, guides for us to experience these beings and powers more directly and "learn" them for ourselves. In a provocative post a couple of weeks ago on the Rational Faiths blog, "Mormonism as 'Metaphor and Sacrament'," Benjamin Knoll introduced writings from scripture, a mystic, a Christian theologian that all made this point about the need to remember to not mistake the pointers for the real thing, to center in relationship with God/Spirit rather than the forms of language and praxis that are central in religious lives. From part of a quotation by Marcus Borg cited in the post: "The Christian life is about a relationship with the one whom the Bible both points to and mediates--namely, a relationship with God as disclosed through the Bible as metaphor and sacrament. To be Christian is to live within this tradition and let it do its transforming work among us." For Borg, a sacrament is "something visible and physical whereby the Spirit becomes present to us. A sacrament is a means of grace, a vehicle or vessel for the Spirit."

In this episode, Benjamin Knoll, Brian Hauglid, and Susan Meredith Hinckley join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon to talk about this paradigm--and especially possibilities of it finding more of a home within Mormonism, for this might be quite helpful to many Latter-day Saints struggling for breathing room within a church culture that emphasizes literalness of most scriptural stories and various truth claims. The panel also evaluates the weaknesses of this model and drawbacks that many would see should too many church members come to hold this view. How might a "metaphorical and sacramental" view change one's interactions with the institutional church, with LDS scriptures, with our wards and branches, with various behavioral expectations in contemporary Mormonism? It's a lively discussion that we hope you will join in with in the comments section!

We all sort of "know" but still very often forget that God and religious and spiritual truths are couched in symbols, language, propositions, metaphors, stories, and ritual actions, meaning that, by definition, a religion's primary languages themselves are not meant to be taken literally. Words and stories and teachings are not the things in themselves but rather pointers toward them, guides for us to experience these beings and powers more directly and "learn" them for ourselves. In a provocative post a couple of weeks ago on the Rational Faiths blog, "Mormonism as 'Metaphor and Sacrament'," Benjamin Knoll introduced writings from scripture, a mystic, a Christian theologian that all made this point about the need to remember to not mistake the pointers for the real thing, to center in relationship with God/Spirit rather than the forms of language and praxis that are central in religious lives. From part of a quotation by Marcus Borg cited in the post: "The Christian life is about a relationship with the one whom the Bible both points to and mediates--namely, a relationship with God as disclosed through the Bible as metaphor and sacrament. To be Christian is to live within this tradition and let it do its transforming work among us." For Borg, a sacrament is "something visible and physical whereby the Spirit becomes present to us. A sacrament is a means of grace, a vehicle or vessel for the Spirit."

In this episode, Benjamin Knoll, Brian Hauglid, and Susan Meredith Hinckley join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon to talk about this paradigm--and especially possibilities of it finding more of a home within Mormonism, for this might be quite helpful to many Latter-day Saints struggling for breathing room within a church culture that emphasizes literalness of most scriptural stories and various truth claims. The panel also evaluates the weaknesses of this model and drawbacks that many would see should too many church members come to hold this view. How might a "metaphorical and sacramental" view change one's interactions with the institutional church, with LDS scriptures, with our wards and branches, with various behavioral expectations in contemporary Mormonism? It's a lively discussion that we hope you will join in with in the comments section!

Because it’s so central to Christianity and because of the concerns so many have about “salvation,” the concept of “sin” deserves fresh consideration. What does scripture say about it? Does that match up with how it is often thought and spoken about within Mormonism? How have our views of it been affected by readings of scripture and thoughts about the Atonement that focus on laws and punishments for breaking them, which, in many ways leaves the view of a loving God practically out of the picture except for providing Jesus Christ to overcome the demands of justice? Does this emphasis on law distort the real harm and effects on us that come from sin? Are there better ways to think about all of it? A few passages of scripture come to the fore as being especially in need of different readings, such as ones that speak of “no unclean thing" being able to "enter the kingdom of heaven,” of God not being able to “look upon sin with the least degree of allowance,” that “the wages of sin is death,” and admonitions to “sin no more" yet "unto the soul who sinneth shall the former sins return.”

In this episode, Adam Miller and Julie de Azevedo-Hanks join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a fresh look at sin and the ways our thinking about it can and often does become distorted. What are the panelists thoughts about the true nature of sin? 

In somewhat of a continuation of our previous episodes (363 & 364), Jim McLachlan and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon are joined by David Ray Griffin, a world-renowned philosopher and theologian specializing in process theology. Griffin has recently published a new book, God Exists But Gawd Does Not: From Evil to Atheism to Fine-Tuning, in which lays out the powerful the arguments against the existence of the omni-everything God of classical theism (what Griffin terms "Gawd"--pronounced as in "awed") yet challenges this as the only "God" possible to believe in and worthy of that title. Hence, in the second part of the book he presents and evaluates arguments for the existence of another type of God (that he labels in the book "God") that is the God of process theology, and very much like the Mormon God in terms of its rejection of creation ex nihilo, and its affirmations of a God who is powerful yet not omnipotent, who exists within a context of other pre-existing entities with whom God seeks to persuade to embody the greatest amount of life and experience possible for them. It's certainly a book well-grounded in the arguments of many, many other thinkers, with some technical philosophy/theology here and there, but ultimately it is a very accessible and readable overview of arguments for and against the existence of God, which is one of the key issue of the philosophy or religion, but also of many faith journeys, including Mormon ones. For those who find themselves in turmoil as older conceptions of God are falling away for them, this is a must-listen episode. There is a lot of terrific common sense here, as well as hints about lovely possible ways to re-engage with Deity as well as persons and the world around us.

For many who find themselves in the middle of a faith crisis, casting about for new footing and ways of orienting to life and others, one of largest stumbling blocks is often their view of God. All of a sudden, as they find themselves far more aware of the confusion that marks life on earth, of the horrendous suffering experienced by so many, or the multitude of paths and choices we all must face, the idea of an omnipotent God who is also loving begins to crack. A frequent refrain we’ll hear is for the need to dismiss the idea of a God who regularly helps people with small things such as finding their lost keys yet who does not stop the terrible evils all around, such a that of people being sold into sexual slavery. Interestingly, for Mormons who encounter this disconnect between a God of power and God of love, already built into its theology—however, one that is too often overlooked—is a radically different view of God that mitigates some of this sting. This episode is designed to serve as a reminder of the fundamentally different view of God, God’s power, God’s life, God’s relationship with persons and other existents in this world that Mormonism holds.  And it is these views that, though they don’t make suffering go away, for many Latter-day Saints still allow them to have a deep and abiding faith in a God. For them, it is a wonderful God, even in this God's vulnerability.

Fiona Givens, James McLachlan, and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon are three such Latter-day Saints who find the LDS framing of God to be rich, deep, and empowering. They find themselves drawn toward this God who is “in the fray” with the rest of creation rather than being outside it, a God who cannot, even if God wanted to, control what unfolds in life, yet who will always return love for hate, largeness whenever faced with smallness, and who suffers “with” us as we meet life’s vicissitudes. In this two-part discussion, they describe this God and why they are attracted to this Being. They also discuss God’s power and its limits, and how this affects their views of scripture (which often depicts an angry God who destroys cities and persons), and God’s ways of intervening in things like healing. In the final section, they argue as well for the superiority of time over eternity and why a God who exists in time alongside other free agents is the only one they could ever truly love.

For many who find themselves in the middle of a faith crisis, casting about for new footing and ways of orienting to life and others, one of largest stumbling blocks is often their view of God. All of a sudden, as they find themselves far more aware of the confusion that marks life on earth, of the horrendous suffering experienced by so many, or the multitude of paths and choices we all must face, the idea of an omnipotent God who is also loving begins to crack. A frequent refrain we’ll hear is for the need to dismiss the idea of a God who regularly helps people with small things such as finding their lost keys yet who does not stop the terrible evils all around, such a that of people being sold into sexual slavery. Interestingly, for Mormons who encounter this disconnect between a God of power and God of love, already built into its theology—however, one that is too often overlooked—is a radically different view of God that mitigates some of this sting. This episode is designed to serve as a reminder of the fundamentally different view of God, God’s power, God’s life, God’s relationship with persons and other existents in this world that Mormonism holds.  And it is these views that, though they don’t make suffering go away, for many Latter-day Saints still allow them to have a deep and abiding faith in a God. For them, it is a wonderful God, even in this God's vulnerability.

Fiona Givens, James McLachlan, and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon are three such Latter-day Saints who find the LDS framing of God to be rich, deep, and empowering. They find themselves drawn toward this God who is “in the fray” with the rest of creation rather than being outside it, a God who cannot, even if God wanted to, control what unfolds in life, yet who will always return love for hate, largeness whenever faced with smallness, and who suffers “with” us as we meet life’s vicissitudes. In this two-part discussion, they describe this God and why they are attracted to this Being. They also discuss God’s power and its limits, and how this affects their views of scripture (which often depicts an angry God who destroys cities and persons), and God’s ways of intervening in things like healing. In the final section, they argue as well for the superiority of time over eternity and why a God who exists in time alongside other free agents is the only one they could ever truly love.

Meet in this podcast two wonderful, active Latter-day Saints who are "alive in Christ," Jesus focused, and modeling in their wards and circles a robust faith in Jesus Christ and the transformative power of the Atonement in ways that stretch far beyond forgiveness of one's sins. They are on engagement paths that both thrill and challenge them (and even frightens them at times) as Jesus continually surprises and calls them into deeper relationship. In this conversation with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, Billy Phillips and Tom Gleason share their stories--quite different from each other--that led them to direct encounters with Jesus that have changed their lives and orientation toward God and their spiritual paths, and also share their views of worship that have been known to stretch the comfort zones of some of their fellow saints. How might Mormonism embrace more enlivened worship and expressions of faith related to a God who actively breaks open previous conceptions? Can Mormonism embrace a less "safe" Deity that, once in contact with, will draw those who experience at this level into a different type of engagement with the church--and, especially, its traditional, "acceptable" ways of doing things?

This episode continues a conversation with one of the panelists from the previous installment, Kim Puzey. Picking up where we left off in his life story, it explores with Kim more about how he joyfully orients toward Spirit and Values even as his life has been full of struggle and pain, such as the loss of his father at an early age, long battles with depression, deep feelings of existential angst, and much more. Kim has emerged from this life of questioning and learning from difficulties with a fantastic sense of peace that naturally draws many to him, finding in him an authentic and thoughtful mentor and model for a spiritual journey well walked.

Friend of the podcast, Kevin Kapp, joins Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon in interviewing Kim.

Doubting our long-held views of the world, especially if firm faith positions are part of it, is a high stakes matter. Not only do enter into a new relationship with one’s own whole way of thinking, which is stressful enough, but family dynamics and friendships and our social groups most often also begin to feel different. We’re now different, and we need to reorient in ways that incorporate our new views. But many times family and other loved ones fail to understand what we’re going through. We often fail to understand what we’re going through! It all feels so big, so dramatic. It is hard to manage these changes gracefully.

Is there help? Are there different ways to frame what we and they are going through as we find ourselves shifting from familiar pathways and interpersonal dynamics? Jon Ogden has written a terrific book that just might help. Called When Mormons Doubt: A Way to Save Relationships and Live a Quality Life, it reminds us of deep wisdom we often forget. Invoking the Ancient Greeks and moving us forward in time, Ogden highlights three key values and ways of understanding—Truth (the realm of philosophy), Goodness (ethics—what is moral, how should I act?), and Beauty (aesthetics, experiential knowing, judging between things)—that often become out of balance with each other. In “faith crisis,” truth often leads out (how does what I am leaning match with “Reality” or what I previously held as true?). But in that struggle, we’ll often leave the other ways of knowing and judging behind. How can we avoid that?

In this episode, Jon Ogden is joined by Jeralee Renshaw and Kim Puzey, along with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, for a lively discussion of these important areas and how they can inform various aspects of our faith struggles. But mostly it is a conversation that hopefully presents four Latter-day Saints who have come to appreciate all three values and have incorporated them in a balanced way into their own lives and spiritual journeys. Hopefully you’ll find them to make good sense and this episode something that might assist you as you transition into these new ways of seeing the world and being with others.

How many times have we inadvertently offended a person or group of persons because we simply aren’t thinking about how the things we say might strike them? Because we are in a hurry? Because we are writing or speaking while our emotions are high? Because we signal that we care less about them than we do about our being “right”? Conversation is hard work, especially the kind in which we truly connect with other persons. It can be scary to make ourselves vulnerable to the influence of others, to risk possibly having to change our perspectives—and maybe even admit that we are wrong or owe a big apology. Add in that the extra stress that arises when we tale about religious things for which the stakes feel so high and which has been presented to us as “the” truth of the matter.

In some ways upsetting, mischaracterizing, or not imagining in advance one’s entire potential audience is inescapable. But there are definitely practices and reminders that can help keep our conversations from going sideways as often and with fewer deep and often quite damaging effects to our public and personal relationships. Lindsay Hansen Park, Russell Osmond, and Jacob Hess are three great practitioners and thinkers about effective group and interpersonal conversation and relationships, and today they join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for this two-part episode in which they share stories of conversations gone well and poorly, as well as talk about best practices (and things to avoid!) for effective communication on both large and small scales.

How many times have we inadvertently offended a person or group of persons because we simply aren’t thinking about how the things we say might strike them? Because we are in a hurry? Because we are writing or speaking while our emotions are high? Because we signal that we care less about them than we do about our being “right”? Conversation is hard work, especially the kind in which we truly connect with other persons. It can be scary to make ourselves vulnerable to the influence of others, to risk possibly having to change our perspectives—and maybe even admit that we are wrong or owe a big apology. Add in that the extra stress that arises when we tale about religious things for which the stakes feel so high and which has been presented to us as “the” truth of the matter.

In some ways upsetting, mischaracterizing, or not imagining in advance one’s entire potential audience is inescapable. But there are definitely practices and reminders that can help keep our conversations from going sideways as often and with fewer deep and often quite damaging effects to our public and personal relationships. Lindsay Hansen Park, Russell Osmond, and Jacob Hess are three great practitioners and thinkers about effective group and interpersonal conversation and relationships, and today they join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for this two-part episode in which they share stories of conversations gone well and poorly, as well as talk about best practices (and things to avoid!) for effective communication on both large and small scales.

This is an encore presentation of a December 2011 podcast episode examining the Christmas story as it traditionally gets told—looking closely at what the scriptures actually say and do not say about the birth of Christ and all the pieces of this familiar story. For instance, how do the Matthew and Luke accounts differ—even irreconcilably? What are possible motives behind the Gospel writers’ decisions to shape the stories the way they did? What about Jesus’s place of birth and the reason the family was in Bethlehem (if they were)? Was there a great tax and registration? What about “no room at the inn,” the manger, the star, the magi, the story of Herod killing all male infants under two years old? How did Christmas come to be held on December 25th?

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Kristine Haglund, Jared Anderson, and Zina Petersen explore all these questions plus lead a fascinating tour into other parts of the Christmas story. Why are only five women mentioned in the Gospels’ presentations of Jesus’s lineage—and why are the ones listed all women with “questionable” sexual pasts? What are the Twelve Days of Christmas? What is the “Immaculate Conception” and how does it affect theology about Mary and ideas about the Eucharist and other religious devotions? How has pagan history and ideas folded into the history of “Christmas” (not Jesus’s birth but the celebration of it)? The panel discusses solstices and equinoxes, the meshing of calendaring systems, the link between carnivals and holy days, shepherds’ presents to the Christ child, and even a longstanding tradition of “ghost story” tie-ins with Christmas that Charles Dickens resurrected. Why was there a period of time in which Christmas was illegal?

The panel also talks about Christmas music and other aesthetic elements that make this season so compelling for so many. Part of that discussion answers how and why the host and panelists and many other Christians throughout history, knowing all that they know about what likely is and is not factual about traditional accounts, still celebrate Christmas and joyfully sing carols alongside those for whom the stories are less complicated. How can those who "know" we are so often during this time dealing in mythos rather than history (not only with the Christian story but also something like Santa Claus) still experience this season as spiritually enriching?

This is an episode not to be missed!

This is an encore presentation of a December 2011 Mormon Matters podcast episode examining the Christmas story as it traditionally gets told—looking closely at what the scriptures actually say and do not say about the birth of Christ and all the pieces of this familiar story. For instance, how do the Matthew and Luke accounts differ—even irreconcilably? What are possible motives behind the Gospel writers’ decisions to shape the stories the way they did? What about Jesus’s place of birth and the reason the family was in Bethlehem (if they were)? Was there a great tax and registration? What about “no room at the inn,” the manger, the star, the magi, the story of Herod killing all male infants under two years old? How did Christmas come to be held on December 25th?

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Kristine Haglund, Jared Anderson, and Zina Petersen explore all these questions plus lead a fascinating tour into other parts of the Christmas story. Why are only five women mentioned in the Gospels’ presentations of Jesus’s lineage—and why are the ones listed all women with “questionable” sexual pasts? What are the Twelve Days of Christmas? What is the “Immaculate Conception” and how does it affect theology about Mary and ideas about the Eucharist and other religious devotions? How has pagan history and ideas folded into the history of “Christmas” (not Jesus’s birth but the celebration of it)? The panel discusses solstices and equinoxes, the meshing of calendaring systems, the link between carnivals and holy days, shepherds’ presents to the Christ child, and even a longstanding tradition of “ghost story” tie-ins with Christmas that Charles Dickens resurrected. Why was there a period of time in which Christmas was illegal?

The panel also talks about Christmas music and other aesthetic elements that make this season so compelling for so many. Part of that discussion answers how and why the host and panelists and many other Christians throughout history, knowing all that they know about what likely is and is not factual about traditional accounts, still celebrate Christmas and joyfully sing carols alongside those for whom the stories are less complicated. How can those who "know" we are so often during this time dealing in mythos rather than history (not only with the Christian story but also something like Santa Claus) still experience this season as spiritually enriching?

This is an episode not to be missed!

Many people are feeling beat-up emotionally and spiritually right now on the heels of such a difficult and ugly election season. Regardless of whether “our” preferred candidate won or not, the election campaign generated great divisiveness, often causing breakdowns in relationships with friends and loved ones--as well as general pessimism over such a divided electorate. As a result of this exhaustion and general sense of malaise many have experienced, three Open Stories Foundation podcast hosts—Gina Colvin of A Thoughtful Faith, Kristy Money of Mormon Transitions, and Dan Wotherspoon of Mormon Matters—decided it might be nice to talk about this difficult time and various ideas for dealing with the election aftermath in healthy, affirming ways. In the conversation here, they share their own emotions and experiences during the past months and since the close of the election, as well as what has worked for them as they struggle to make sense of what has happened, tend to their own emotional and spiritual care, and as they determine how they want to move forward. May things said here be helpful to others!

This two-part episode is a response to a panel a panel of therapists and a neuroscientist who in episodes 347-348 challenged the idea that pornography is physically addicting, suggesting instead that problematic pornography usage was a symptom of deeper issues, and therefore the best therapeutic approaches focus less on pornography and more on uncovering these underlying pathologies. In this episode, a panel of therapists and a neurosurgeon whose research centers on the biology behind why the brain seeks what it seeks present why they believe the "addiction" model is appropriate, and share how much richer and more diverse are the therapeutic models they employ than what the earlier panel believes, and is even richer in options than traditional approaches. This discussion also looks much more broadly than the previous episodes into "sex addiction" and its treatment.

This panel, featuring Jackie Pack, Alexandra Katehakis, Stefanie Carnes, and Donald Hilton, along with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, dive deep into brain structures and pathways, dopamine and reward and seeking centers, and ways that today's pornography might be classified as a supra-normal stimulus--meaning that it can elicit responses in humans that are much greater than occur in natural situations. The team dives into a great deal of complex scientific material but keeps things understandable and maintains terrific balance. In the final sections of the podcast, they also discuss misunderstandings about Certified Sex Addiction Therapist (CSAT) certifications, introduce its therapeutic models, and discuss the role that religion can play in both creating difficulties for and helping bring about increased sexual health.

This two-part episode is a response to a panel a panel of therapists and a neuroscientist who in episodes 347-348 challenged the idea that pornography is physically addicting, suggesting instead that problematic pornography usage was a symptom of deeper issues, and therefore the best therapeutic approaches focus less on pornography and more on uncovering these underlying pathologies. In this episode, a panel of therapists and a neurosurgeon whose research centers on the biology behind why the brain seeks what it seeks present why they believe the "addiction" model is appropriate, and share how much richer and more diverse are the therapeutic models they employ than what the earlier panel believes, and is even richer in options than traditional approaches. This discussion also looks much more broadly than the previous episodes into "sex addiction" and its treatment.

This panel, featuring Jackie Pack, Alexandra Katehakis, Stefanie Carnes, and Donald Hilton, along with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, dive deep into brain structures and pathways, dopamine and reward and seeking centers, and ways that today's pornography might be classified as a supra-normal stimulus--meaning that it can elicit responses in humans that are much greater than occur in natural situations. The team dives into a great deal of complex scientific material but keeps things understandable and maintains terrific balance. In the final sections of the podcast, they also discuss misunderstandings about Certified Sex Addiction Therapist (CSAT) certifications, introduce its therapeutic models, and discuss the role that religion can play in both creating difficulties for and helping bring about increased sexual health.

Let your views be heard about current LDS policies and teachings about LGBT persons and issues!

Two social psychologists, Michael Nielsen and David Wulff have launched a survey with the hope of learning more about feelings and understandings of LGBT Latter-day Saints and issues among church members from all across the spectrum of belief and activity. This survey offers chances in various places for respondents to type in longer answers to open-ended questions, making it a bit difficult to accurately predict how long it will take to complete the survey. The current estimate is 30 to 40 minutes.

Here is a link to the survey's landing page. There you can learn more about Michael and David, privacy of your data, and more.  

Be part of this potentially important qualitative as well as quantitative survey. Only through means like this can we fully understand how Latter-day Saints connect various parts of their Mormonism with different ideas and experiences.

Take the survey--and then share it with friends and family members. Especially those who may see things differently than you do!

http://bit.ly/2eZ6bnh

On Thursday afternoon, November 5th, 2015, a leak of new directives regarding LGBT Latter-day Saints was made public, kicking off a tumultuous year within many Mormon circles. What came to be known informally as "The Policy" required stake leaders to excommunicate for "apostasy" any Latter-day Saints who were in same-sex marriages regardless of their belief level in Mormonism, and to withhold baby blessings (which include having that child entered into the records of the church), baptism, and priesthood ordination and advancement to any children or teens who live within the home of a parent who is in a same-sex relationship, whether married or not. These directives, published in the church's Handbook of Instructions to bishoprics and stake presidencies, both astonished and struck many Latter-day Saints as flying in the face of their own spiritual sense of what is right and wrong, as well as what Christ would do. It seemed to them, at best, an institutional response (perhaps guided by attorneys who proposed possible legal exposure the church might have on other fronts without clarifying the status of married LGBT Latter-day Saints) to the U.S. Supreme Court ruling earlier in the year legalizing same-sex marriages throughout the country.

The year since "The Policy" offered several indications that the church was standing firm in its position, in one case even seeing the president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles referring to it as a "revelation," but also both anecdotally and in some actions that came to be known publicly that it might be losing favor and status among the leading quorums.

In this two-part episode, a wonderful panel of church members--Jana Riess, Benjamin Knoll, Mitch Mayne, Laura Root, and Walt Wood-- who have carefully watched from various and interesting vantage points the year unfold with regard to The Policy join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon. What is their sense of how things stand today? What signals are they seeing about the Policy's waning? What do survey responses reveal about its reception within the church as a whole, and among members from various generations and other categories and life experiences? What do panelists feel about the long-term impact of The Policy within the church? Ultimately will it prove to a pivot point that will actually serve to move the church's membership more quickly toward acceptance of LGBT members in full fellowship? What are the main sources for optimism about the direction things seem to be moving? How are they themselves maintaining energy to keep engaging in these conversations? 

On Thursday afternoon, November 5th, 2015, a leak of new directives regarding LGBT Latter-day Saints was made public, kicking off a tumultuous year within many Mormon circles. What came to be known informally as "The Policy" required stake leaders to excommunicate for "apostasy" any Latter-day Saints who were in same-sex marriages regardless of their belief level in Mormonism, and to withhold baby blessings (which include having that child entered into the records of the church), baptism, and priesthood ordination and advancement to any children or teens who live within the home of a parent who is in a same-sex relationship, whether married or not. These directives, published in the church's Handbook of Instructions to bishoprics and stake presidencies, both astonished and struck many Latter-day Saints as flying in the face of their own spiritual sense of what is right and wrong, as well as what Christ would do. It seemed to them, at best, an institutional response (perhaps guided by attorneys who proposed possible legal exposure the church might have on other fronts without clarifying the status of married LGBT Latter-day Saints) to the U.S. Supreme Court ruling earlier in the year legalizing same-sex marriages throughout the country.

The year since "The Policy" offered several indications that the church was standing firm in its position, in one case even seeing the president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles referring to it as a "revelation," but also both anecdotally and in some actions that came to be known publicly that it might be losing favor and status among the leading quorums.

In this two-part episode, a wonderful panel of church members--Jana Riess, Benjamin Knoll, Mitch Mayne, Laura Root, and Walt Wood-- who have carefully watched from various and interesting vantage points the year unfold with regard to The Policy join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon. What is their sense of how things stand today? What signals are they seeing about the Policy's waning? What do survey responses reveal about its reception within the church as a whole, and among members from various generations and other categories and life experiences? What do panelists feel about the long-term impact of The Policy within the church? Ultimately will it prove to a pivot point that will actually serve to move the church's membership more quickly toward acceptance of LGBT members in full fellowship? What are the main sources for optimism about the direction things seem to be moving? How are they themselves maintaining energy to keep engaging in these conversations? 

On October 25, 2016, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released a new website, www.mormonandgay.lds.org, an update of its previous site articulating LDS positions on various aspects of same-sex attraction. What is the new site like? How is it an improvement on the previous site and its messaging? Did the church make any big missteps through anything on the site? Who is the site's primary audience? About five hours after the site's launch, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon was joined by Boyd Jay Petersen, Jody England Hansen, Wendy Williams Montgomery, and Christian Harrison to talk about these and other aspects of this site and its launch. 

On October 1st 2016, the final day of the LDS Church's October General Conference, a dozen or so videos were leaked online that show the briefings of various topics given to the church's top leadership, and one of a general staff meeting of the Church History Department. All videos were from 2007 to 2012, and all were officially recorded by the church for record keeping purposes as well as for viewing by those in these leading groups who may not have been present. The videos range from just a few minutes in length to an hour or longer, with topics as diverse as marijuana legislation, to world affairs, to the rise of piracy, to new scientific findings that challenge the notion of human's having "consciences," to how to hold onto the Church's single young adults, religious freedom, and the Church's influence in the U.S. Congress. In addition to presentations, the videos show various exchanges among members of the Quorum of the Twelve as well as with the presenters.

The videos have created a stir among many Latter-day Saint discussion groups, causing some consternation for some, reasons for optimism among others. In this episode, three keen observers of the church and discussions among various constituencies, Boyd Jay Petersen, Kristy Money, and Mark Crego, join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for an overview of the videos and the discussions, especially noting themes, purposes, and inter-personal and other dynamics they see at play in the videos and among those speaking in them. 

They raise a lot of issues, but we know there are more! Please join in the discussion at the Mormon Matters website!

The past ten days featured two opposing Op-Eds in the Salt Lake Tribune focusing on the issue of pornography, and especially if an “addiction” model (“pornography is highly addicting”) is appropriate to be taught in high school settings. The impetus for the initial opinion piece was the propriety of allowing the group “Fight the New Drug” (FTND) to offer presentations in public school assemblies or other gathering types, especially since the science behind the claims FTND makes about pornography as “addicting” is not credible (at least that is the claim of the writers). Leaders of FTND and others who work with clients under the “pornography addiction” model and the therapies it suggests wrote a response challenging the claims made in the first Op-ed, linking to studies they say supports all the arguments they make or that challenge studies that underlie the thinking of those who oppose the “addiction” model. It is a fascinating back-and-forth that highlights a major division within helping communities with regard to the effects of pornography upon the human brain and body, and the best approach(es) to take when someone comes to a therapist for help with a level of pornography usage they feel is is problematic. 

In this two-part episode, two of the authors of the first Op-ed, Natasha Helfer Parker and Kristin Hodson (both Mormon and certified sex therapists), along with neuroscientist and sex researcher Dr. Nicole Prause and sex therapist Jay Blevins (who are both non-LDS), join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a wide-ranging discussion of the research surrounding the effects of pornography and if it shows the markers typically associated with “addiction,” and why this group feels the model fails—not only scientifically but with the therapies that arise out of this framing doing more harm than good. The host and panel discuss the influence of religious framings on both therapists and clients that are likely very much at play in preferring the “addiction” model, what other factors might be at play in continuing to use this language and claims about pornography usage, the propriety of it being presented in schools that allow no teachings whatsoever about sexuality within the curriculum yet still allow scare-inducing warnings against pornography (which, in itself, seems incomprehensible apart from understanding healthy sexuality first), along with various other models for assisting those who self-report as pornography or sex “addicts”—and why they feel these other framings and therapies yield better results. Plus so much more!

In the future, as Mormon Matters can gather a panel of persons supporting the addiction model and treatment programs that employ that framing, we look forward to letting them present their reasons and challenge anything offered in this episode.

The past ten days featured two opposing Op-Eds in the Salt Lake Tribune focusing on the issue of pornography, and especially if an “addiction” model (“pornography is highly addicting”) is appropriate to be taught in high school settings. The impetus for the initial opinion piece was the propriety of allowing the group “Fight the New Drug” (FTND) to offer presentations in public school assemblies or other gathering types, especially since the science behind the claims FTND makes about pornography as “addicting” is not credible (at least that is the claim of the writers). Leaders of FTND and others who work with clients under the “pornography addiction” model and the therapies it suggests wrote a response challenging the claims made in the first Op-ed, linking to studies they say supports all the arguments they make or that challenge studies that underlie the thinking of those who oppose the “addiction” model. It is a fascinating back-and-forth that highlights a major division within helping communities with regard to the effects of pornography upon the human brain and body, and the best approach(es) to take when someone comes to a therapist for help with a level of pornography usage they feel is is problematic. 

In this two-part episode, two of the authors of the first Op-ed, Natasha Helfer Parker and Kristin Hodson (both Mormon and certified sex therapists), along with neuroscientist and sex researcher Dr. Nicole Prause and sex therapist Jay Blevins (who are both non-LDS), join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a wide-ranging discussion of the research surrounding the effects of pornography and if it shows the markers typically associated with “addiction,” and why this group feels the model fails—not only scientifically but with the therapies that arise out of this framing doing more harm than good. The host and panel discuss the influence of religious framings on both therapists and clients that are likely very much at play in preferring the “addiction” model, what other factors might be at play in continuing to use this language and claims about pornography usage, the propriety of it being presented in schools that allow no teachings whatsoever about sexuality within the curriculum yet still allow scare-inducing warnings against pornography (which, in itself, seems incomprehensible apart from understanding healthy sexuality first), along with various other models for assisting those who self-report as pornography or sex “addicts”—and why they feel these other framings and therapies yield better results. Plus so much more!

In the future, as Mormon Matters can gather a panel of persons supporting the addiction model and treatment programs that employ that framing, we look forward to letting them present their reasons and challenge anything offered in this episode.

Mormon theology, including temple covenants, along with pulpit and lesson rhetoric and cultural and community discourse place a strong emphasis on the family. It also focuses on our becoming as fully like God as we can, including perfecting the combination of strength and vulnerability, and independence and relationality. In Mormon marriages, this means developing full intimacy with our spouses, which requires first a genuine intimacy with ourselves, facing our challenges and becoming whole. All of our theology and values point to this type of “becoming”—becoming one with God, within ourselves, and with our spouse. Yet, are there aspects of Mormon thought, culture, and practice that work against the development of genuine intimacy between spouses? And, if so, how might we come to better understand these in ways that will allow us ultimately to change them, but along the way, for ourselves, to at least transcend them?

In this episode, Carol Lynn Pearson, Stephen Carter, and Jennifer Finlayson-Fife join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a focused discussion of intimacy in Mormon Marriages. Pearson alerts us to the negative consequences of the persistence of polygamy in our doctrines, practices, and in the hearts and minds of many Latter-day Saints, leading to a terrific discussion that dives down several more layers and, ultimately, to our imagining a “partnership” future that has transcended the harm engendered by “patriarchy.” Carter takes us into several interesting areas related to gender roles, church structures, and ways that the LDS culture places “value” on and judges the success or failure of a marriage—all of which that work against intimacy. Finlayson-Fife lifts up examples and insights from her career as a marriage and family therapist working with Mormon clientele, along with calling us again and again to pay attention to the core gospel of Jesus Christ, what Christ pointed to, which is internal transformation and development not external performance.

We are excited to continue our celebration of the 50^th anniversary of Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought through a conversation with its current editor, Boyd Jay Petersen, its immediate past editor, Kristine Haglund, and current Dialogue board member and one of the organizers of the upcoming Dialogue anniversary gala, Joanna Brooks. How is Dialogue doing in these times of unprecedented access to information that is causing difficulties for print publications? What is the extent of its online profile these days? How is it positioning itself and making the case for its continued importance within the Mormon tradition? How is it competing for great scholarship, essays, fiction, poetry, and other writings? What are its editorial and board philosophies as it tries to steer toward the future?

This is a terrific discussion that we think you’ll enjoy very much! And after Joanna Brooks shares more about the Jubilee events on September 30^th, our guess is everyone who listens will be hard-pressed to not want to respond by attending or getting involved in some way! It is going to be amazing!

Something wonderful with long-lasting effect on Mormonism began in 1966 with the publication of the inaugural issue of Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought. Beginning as a dream brought into reality by five friends at Stanford University, Dialogue went on to become in the days before the Internet “the” go-to source for the best thinking on Mormonism, especially for LDS students and intellectuals who wanted so much to bring their scholarship into conversation with their faith. During its storied career, Dialogue has published many pivotal articles that have helped shape Mormonism, along with providing an early outlet for great writing and art of all sorts, including personal essays, sermons, fiction, poetry, drama, and celebrations of the visual arts.

In this episode, the first of two parts, one of Dialogue’s founders, Frances Lee Menlove, an early Dialogue editor, Robert Rees, and the author of an award-winning series of histories of the journal, Devery Anderson, join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon to explore Dialogue’s history and impact, its aspirations and how they have and have not been met, some of the key moments in its history and wrestles it faced, as well as assessments of its importance within the LDS community. Dialogue is, in many ways, the foundation upon which today’s podcasting and flourishing online discussions about Mormonism are built. It’s history is compelling, with many ups and downs involving the interplay between church leaders and the journal’s decision makers, as well as its finances and reputation. Ultimately, it is a triumphant story--one we are pleased to begin to share with you in this episode.

Following this episode, we will focus in Part 2 on Dialogue’s present and future.

LDS, Mormon, Scripture, Dialogue, Suffering, Faith and Doubt, Complaint, Atonement, women’s issues

A new book edited by Julie M. Smith, As Iron Sharpens Iron: Listening to the Various Voices of Scripture, does something wonderful. It takes something we all "kind of" know--that not every verse of scripture fits together in perfect harmony with others; that every writer whose words eventually became "scripture" agrees with every other writer--and in the interesting and entertaining format of imagined dialogues between scripture writers illustrates some of those divergent voices and viewpoints. Joining Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for this discussion are book contributors Julie M. Smith, Michael Austin, and Mark Decker.

In the book, you can hear, among others, Abraham and Job in dialogue about suffering and God's killing of children (Austin's piece), Jacob from the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith debating polygamy and God's laws and their exceptions (Decker's), and Gospel writers Mark and Luke in conversation about women's values and roles and the best way to honor them in Christ's kingdom (Smith's contribution). These stand alongside others such as John the Evangelist and John the Revelator (treating these as different individuals) on the Divinity of Jesus by Nicholas J. Frederick, Job and John on The Satans by Ronan James Head, Tamar and David on Personal Morality by Jason A. Kerr, Abraham and Thomas on Doubt by Steven L. Peck, Amulek and Alma on the Atonement by Joseph M. Spencer, Hannah and Sariah on Complaint, plus eight other fascinating dialogues. As Michael Austin notes within the conversation in this episode, we as Latter-day Saints too often think of and focus on scripture at the "verse" level versus the chapter and/or "book" level, and in so doing miss so much richness. This book and this discussion begins to show the new and complex and robust worlds that can open when we step back and view what has ended up in our scriptures as the writings of good people wrestling with God and life's big questions, and who are sharing about their experiences and/or the events that shaped their peoples and giving their best takes on these subjects. It's then up to us to give their words our consideration and make them springboards into our own spiritual explorations.

The Summer 2016 edition of the online journal SquareTwo features the results and a discussion of a recent poll of Mormon women about the ways that LDS women’s organizations are referred to, and about the names and titles of women’s groups, as well as women who are referred to primarily through their relationship to their husband's titled calling: the “bishop’s wife,” the “mission president’s wife.” It also asked for reactions to a proposal to change the wording of the Young Women’s Theme plus the name of the "Young Womanhood" Award (currently the name of the recognition that is the equivalent to young men's "Duty to God" award. Respondents who thought that discussions of these things or changes were in order were then given a chance to make suggestions for those new names and titles. Following a Salt Lake Tribune blog post about the survey, discussion really took off, netting an large number of comments both supportive of and quite dismissive of the survey and issues it raises.

This Mormon Matters episode, featuring SquareTwo board member and one of the writers of the article analyzing the survey’s results, Neylan McBaine, and Mormon therapist and writer about women’s issues and group dynamics, Julie de Azevedo Hanks, examines the survey and its findings, but also the interesting feedback it has received. What do these responses say about today’s Mormonism, especially in relation to non-correlated, non-official efforts to open up discussions about and propose potential solutions to issues that negatively affect many LDS women?

As the LDS Sunday School Gospel Doctrine curriculum turns in coming weeks to the later chapters of the book of Alma and the stories there about Captain Moroni, the Stripling Warriors, along with various wars and war strategies, assassinations, and other accounts of events that unfolded between the Nephites and Lamanites, we are pleased to host this discussion that aims to assist with in-class experiences. Joining Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon are wonderful scholars and thinkers, and also current Gospel Doctrine teachers, Patrick Mason and David Pulsipher as they examine various ways to better understand some the messages about war within the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants. How can we separate what is merely “descriptive” of events that took place within the history of the Book of Mormon peoples from that which are “prescriptive” attitudes and actions that God endorses? How might understanding Mormon as the primary narrator of these sections give us a better sense of why certain things are present? In what ways might Mormon's accounting for the events that take place (including accounts of the way the Anti-Nephi-Lehies approached those who sought to destroy them) also be evidence of his own journey that led by the time of his death to different attitudes toward war? How should we as Latter-day Saints engage teachings about war and when violence is justified against one’s enemies found in D&C 98 in concert with the messages found within these sections of the Book of Mormon? And there's so much more!

This is a fantastic discussion with great richness and wisdom for approaching these scriptures and setting up conditions for possibly very rich discussions within our upcoming Sunday School classes! 

This episode (in two parts) is a continuation of an earlier discussion of Mercy (episode 332, March 2016) but also very different, focusing this time on “mercy” as it functions for so many as a theological concept rather than the way it should: as something transformative in our spiritual lives. The conversation starts out a bit nerdy, with host Dan Wotherspoon laying out some framings about mercy that he senses are very much in play within Mormonism, but it soon turns into a very approachable and insightful discussion of far more powerful understandings of God and the plan of salvation, and especially the concept of “sin,” than one typically encounters. Joining us again are wonderful scholars, authors, and conversationalists Mat Schmalz, Fiona Givens, and Alonzo Gaskill.

This episode represents very well the wideness of views possible within Mormonism and wider Christianity, in this case Catholicism, as well as their power. If in the past you’ve been turned off by “thin” discussions of religion and the way it is presented, I think this is an episode that could help you reconsider the richness that is present but that only needs a bit of prodding to burst forth.

This episode (in two parts) is a continuation of an earlier discussion of Mercy (episode 332, March 2016) but also very different, focusing this time on “mercy” as it functions for so many as a theological concept rather than the way it should: as something transformative in our spiritual lives. The conversation starts out a bit nerdy, with host Dan Wotherspoon laying out some framings about mercy that he senses are very much in play within Mormonism, but it soon turns into a very approachable and insightful discussion of far more powerful understandings of God and the plan of salvation, and especially the concept of “sin,” than one typically encounters. Joining us again are wonderful scholars, authors, and conversationalists Mat Schmalz, Fiona Givens, and Alonzo Gaskill.

This episode represents very well the wideness of views possible within Mormonism and wider Christianity, in this case Catholicism, as well as their power. If in the past you’ve been turned off by “thin” discussions of religion and the way it is presented, I think this is an episode that could help you reconsider the richness that is present but that only needs a bit of prodding to burst forth.

Mormon Matters is hosting a 2.5-day retreat, 26 - 28 August. What will it be like? Who are we hoping will join in? How does this retreat differ from other one hosted under the auspices of the Open Stories Foundation? Will this retreat not only be informative, restorative, connective--but also FUN?

Even if you cannot make it to this Mormon Matters retreat, "Navigating a Healthy Mormon Journey," in August, perhaps you will want to learn about them in general in anticipation of joining in the experience another time. (Plans will be announced soon for quarterly Mormon Matters and other OSF retreats or events.) Perhaps you know of friends or family members who are really struggling right now with relationships in their lives that have been strained by their entrances into faith journeys that are leading them to territory that is scary for them and those who love them--and you sense they might benefit from this retreat. Perhaps you know that you or they might be strengthened from making friends who are on similar journeys, who are also struggling with communication, who could benefit from new and enriching ways to understand what they are going through, and who want tips for interacting with others as their authentic selves, including on Sundays and in other church settings. There are lots of reasons to listen to this short conversation between Mormon Matters host and convener of this retreat, Dan Wotherspoon, Ph.D., and the retreat leader, Natasha Helfer Parker, LCMFT, CST.

See links on the website for details about how and where to register and who to contact with questions. We hope to hear from you and then see you beginning on the 26th!

Are Mormons funny? Do we Mormons have a good sense of humor—in general, or more importantly, when it focuses on ourselves? In introducing Mormonism to those who are outside the faith and attempting to share how the gospel and Mormon life make sense to or motivate its adherents, can a light-hearted, humorous approach be more effective than “earnestness”? In this episode, we bring together three people for whom the answer to this last question is a resounding “yes”! Yet each also recognizes that there are lines—sometimes fuzzy, sometimes very clear—that one must not cross. Often it is informed by fear of losing the good will and respect of the Mormon audience who, let’s face it, will be among the majority of readers even for books about Mormons geared toward outsiders. This audience may be comfortable with finding humor in Mormon culture and its quirks, but possibly will balk as one seeks to examine via humor (and its gifts at providing at times very stark mirrors for things under its gaze) certain practices or teachings. When writing for outsiders (and it’s a good reminder when the Mormon audience will be reading, as well), a humorous approach must watch out for pitfalls such as stereotyping, caricaturing, or not recognizing that a particular view of theirs that might feel like “safe” territory to you doesn’t feel so for them.

A wonderful panel consisting of Latter-day Saints who have written or illustrated wonderful books examining Mormonism through fun approaches—Stephen Carter and Jett Atwood (author and illustrator of the new book, Mormonism for Beginners, as well as two volumes of a Book of Mormon comic book/graphic novel called iPlates) and Jana Riess (co-author of Mormonism for Dummies, and author of The Twible)—examine these and many other questions. How does humor function more effectively than taking a serious, dead-eyed laser approach as an aid in our examining things we sometimes miss because of familiarity, or because we are living within certain patterns of thought, or shells, or structures that we forget are not themselves actually the “real” thing? How important is a humorist’s own feelings toward its subject—affectionate, antagonistic, dismissive—in her or his ability to reach their desired audience—and not just to entertain them but possibly also aid in their shifting certain perspectives? It’s a wonderful conversation that also features their recommendations, along with those of Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, of favorite examples of Mormon humor done well.

Standout Mormon author, scholar, and commentator Jana Riess is working on her next book, which will focus on Mormonism's "Millennial" generation (those now between ages 18 and 35) and their spirituality, religiosity, views and attitudes toward aligning with institutions, and much, much more. It will be titled The Next Mormons. In service of that project, she is actively interviewing many, many people, and has just this week launched a Kickstarter campaign to fund a massive, representative national survey of four generations of Mormons, seeking to find key areas of difference that can help illuminate what is occurring among the generation of Latter-day Saints just entering serious adulthood. This episode shares Jana's vision for the importance of these interviews and studies and the information they will yield, but Jana and co-panelists David Campbell and Derrick Clements, along with Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, talk about several themes and trends we are now beginning to see come forward among Millennials. The discussions are fascinating, ranging from Millennial "seeking" to attitudes towards marriage and family, as well as experiences in church settings such as temples, sacrament and other meetings, singles and mid-singles wards, etc. It is enough to definitely wet our whistle and become even more thirsty for more information to come forth, especially through Jana's capable, enjoyable, wonderful head, heart, and hands.

Please listen to the conversation, visit the Kickstarter (it only runs through Friday, July 29th), and join in the dialogue at the Mormon Matters website.

The Next Mormons Kickstarter Campaign

In this episode, author Carol Lynn Pearson joins Mormon Matters host, Dan Wotherspoon, for a one-on-one conversation about her new and extremely powerful book, The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy: Haunting the Hearts and Heaven of Mormon Women and Men. In it, Carol Lynn embraces two roles: the first, a position that many have ascribed to her of “wise-woman elder”; the second, “storyteller,” which role no one has ever filled better. From the gifts associated with these titles and her own huge heart and great power drawn from her love of her Mormon people, including its founder who instigated the practice and doctrine of plural marriage, she presents the most compelling portrait to date of the dramatic, heartbreaking, confusing, and emotionally devastating effects of polygamy’s continued haunting presence in today’s Mormonism, a Mormonism that ostensibly ended the practice of plural marriage more than a century ago. Through wonderful confluences of her own stories, the stories of women and men in early Mormonism, as well as stories drawn from thousands of responses she received from people who participated in a survey asking about their understandings of polygamy in past-, present-, and future-day Mormonism, along with terrific research and gathering of wonderful insights from Mormon and non-Mormon teachers and scholars, a compelling picture emerges that strongly suggests it is time to admit the practice is, and has always been, a terrible mistake—one that produces pain and heartache and leads to distancing from God and our highest selves. It is certainly not God’s own form of marriage, nor the Divine’s desires for us. In beautiful and loving ways, Carol Lynn shares reasons for seeing this conclusion about polygamy’s origins in Joseph Smith’s mind and actions as the most forgiving and healing stance toward it we can take, and one that she believes Joseph himself would agree with and encourage us to work to bring it to an end.

Even amidst the many difficult topics and stories the book engages, Carol Lynn retains a positive outlook and reasons for imagining a hopeful, post-polygamous future. She does not leave us with a full de-construction without offering a new vision: moving from “Patriarchy to Partnership,” which, itself, is already a reality she and leaders she works alongside have already begun to know and embody. It is nearly impossible by book’s end for us to not want to join together with great energy in a wonderful (even worldwide, beyond Mormonism) healing adventure.

Please listen to this conversation, which includes Carol Lynn reading many incredible passages from the book, and then add your thoughts, questions, and experiences in the comments section below!

In commenting about Hope, Patrick Mason writes: “The three great Christian virtues are faith, hope, and charity. The first and the third receive significant attention, but hope—like many middle children—sometimes gets lost in the shuffle” (Planted, 123). Mason is right. How often do we examine this important virtue/quality/gift/fruit? In this episode, Patrick Mason, Brian Hauglid, Bridget Jack Jeffries, and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon try to remedy this neglect, diving into various facets of Hope: what it is, how it is gained and allowed to flourish, and its various guises within religious as well as secular systems of thought. The panel also examines specifics of Christian Hope—including its sense that for believers, in the end they know Christ and justice and mercy and all virtues will emerge triumphant—and in what ways this sensibility can serve both wonderful motivations to action and, at times, personal complacency. Jeffries also helps Latter-day Saints come to better understand differences and complements between Mormonism and Evangelical Christianity on this as well as a few other theological subjects. Each panelist also shares about personal trials in their lives and where their sense of hope finds its firmest footing.

Once someone has begun to explore ideas and have experiences that are not outlined explicitly within the typical Mormon curriculum, it is often very difficult to find footing again within our own spirits, as well as among LDS family, friends, and communities. If one chooses to push through these difficult transition periods, however, many have found that wide and expansive aspects of Mormonism begin to unfold again, and that Mormonism can be a wonderful home once more for continued spiritual development. They find perspectives or learn from various experiences new ways to engage fully with nearly everyone they have always loved and lived their lives in orbit with, even if these others no longer are following similar adventurous paths, nor anymore really understand them and all they have and are going through.

This episode is a recording (with video also available) of a live event that took place on June 15th, 2016, in Salt Lake City, Utah. Hosted by Mormon Stories podcast as part of its live events series, this evening’s program was a conversation with several members of the church who have once more found peace within their Mormon journeys and who are engaging it and living their lives with energy and hopefulness within the tradition even while still fully aware of its many difficulties and challenges. The panelists were: Gina Colvin (Host of the A Thoughtful Faith podcast), Thomas Wirthlin McConkie (Author of Navigating Mormon Faith Crisis), and me, Dan Wotherspoon (Host of the Mormon Matters podcast). The convener and host for the evening was John Dehlin (Host of the Mormon Stories podcast). John’s guidance for the conversations was terrific and led to some wonderful discussions, sharing of insights, fun (and perhaps slightly “blue”) moments of genuine humor, and an overall fantastic evening. The close of the session also featured powerful and heartfelt emotions and questions from audience members.

Please listen (or watch!) and share your thoughts and ideas in the comments section below!

In a wonderful new book, Future Mormon: Essays in Mormon Theology, Adam Miller sets his spirit and intellect loose on the important task of helping clear away debris and suggesting some possible new framings for Mormonism that might appeal to coming generations. As he writes in the Introduction, “Every generation must live its own lives and think its own thoughts and receive its own revelations. And, if Mormonism continues to matter, it will because they, rather than leaving, were willing to be Mormon all over again. Like our grandparents, like our parents, and like us, they will have to rethink the whole tradition, from top to bottom, right from the beginning, and make it their own in order to embody Christ anew in this passing world. To the degree that we can help, our job is to model that work in love and then offer them the tools, the raw materials, and the room to do it themselves.”

In this episode, Adam Miller, Rosalynde Welch, and Jim McLachlan join Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for a discussion of Future Mormon and various themes in Adam’s thinking. What question that we hear quite often in Mormonism seems too thin to lead us to “load-bearing” answers that can serve us in the midst of “white knuckle” prayers? Is “truth” static, sitting in God’s mind or heart like a vault waiting to be opened and shared, or is the ideal approach to truth something more dynamic, something that calls on us each, in our lives, to “make” true, to see how far a truth can carry us? Are there more powerful ways to think of “grace” beyond its role in the Atonement and questions of our salvation? Have we in Mormonism skipped over some elements that the apostle Paul might claim are essential, Christianity 101 kind of things—and how can these animate our lives in fresh and powerful ways? The discussion moves fast, and at times perhaps might seem a bit too “insider baseball-ish” (as the four panelists talk about things in a book most listeners will not have read), but those moments pass and this is an immensely enjoyable conversation.

Please help continue the conversation at the Mormon Matters website!