On Listening

Eva Goldfarb, PhD, is a Professor of Public Health at Montclair State University. She works in the field of sexuality education developing and leading sexuality education and sexual health programs with youth, parents, educators and other professionals. She loves teaching and working with students is her passion. Two notable achievements are her work in development of the public domain Rights Respect and Responsibility sex education program and the study we discuss today in the Journal of Adolescent Health with her co-author Lisa Lieberman Three Decades of Research: The Case for Comprehensive Sex Education.

In this episode of On Listening, we have Dr. Judi Brownell, professor at the SE Johnson College of Business at Cornell University and author of the textbook Listening: Attitudes, Principles, and Skills now in its 7th edition. Dr. Brownell is past president and currently active member of the International Listening Association. We talk about the scientific model of listening she developed entitled the HURIER model which breaks listening down into skills and other psychological and contextual elements. Dr. Brownell recommends some specific methods to become a better listener and advocates that more time be spent teaching listening skills in all institutions of learning from Kindergarten and up as well as in corporate trainings. Learn more about Dr. Brownell by visiting her faculty page (https://sha.cornell.edu/faculty-research/faculty/jlb18/).

In this episode of On Listening, I have the distinct privilege to interview Michel Zaken, secondary education professional and Deaf woman. She engaged with me via Zoom along with her interpreter Nicole Lupinetti. Michel helped me understand the experience of listening for the d/Deaf and hard of hearing population with the caveat that she does not speak for all d/Deaf people. We discuss American Sign Language - a strictly visual language - and how it differs from American English. She exposes myths around deafness and discusses the experience from the lens of having a “deaf gain” as well as living with a disability. We also explore “audism” which is the bias that d/Deaf people are in some way less than. I learned more in this podcast than any other and so appreciate her thoughtfulness and connection on this topic.

In this episode of On Listening I interview Elliot Kronenfeld, LICSW, PhD(c) owner of Insight Brookline, a mental clinic in the Boston area specializing in mental health across the lifespan. Elliot’s areas of interest are infidelity, infertility and intimacy skills. He is the author of Couples by Intention and we discuss his experiences with running education groups with couples - teaching and exploring listening skills. Elliot and I explore deep listening, as well as disenfranchised grief. Elliot has a knack for labeling skills and tools; this helps me conceptualize what he is doing and sharing. I admire his skills. Elliot is very personal in his storytelling and I am sure you will enjoy him maybe as much as I enjoy him!

In this episode of On Listening I have the distinct pleasure of interviewing Herb Smith (https://rpo.org/conductors-musicians/#musicians). Herb is founder of the Freedom Trio and is Third Trumpeter of the Rochester Philharmonic Orchestra and conducts for them as well. Herb and I discuss the importance of listening in music: almost 50% of performing is listening to other performers and students need to learn to listen to themselves as they practice. Herb and I share feelings about the killing of George Floyd and the Black Lives Matter movement, his excitement that the RPO performed at a BLM rally, and we were both hopeful about change as racism is caught on camera. Periodically the only Black person in the entire Eastman Theatre during a concert, Herb shares his experiences in his mostly white world. In the City of Rochester almost 40% of the population is Black (https://datausa.io/profile/geo/rochester-ny/#:~:text=The%205%20largest%20ethnic%20groups,%2DHispanic)%20(3.22%25) yet in his graduating class at Eastman and as a performer, Blacks were and are represented significantly less. Enjoy a Rochester treasure.

David Prescott (https://www.davidprescott.net/), Clinical Social Worker editor of Safer Society Press and international consultant talks about listening and we explore listening as we attend to how we listen to each other. I have the unfortunate experience of losing the mic and rely on my built-in laptop mic. Listening is truly difficult and David approaches this with a sense of humility. I start thinking about a Taxonomy of Listening… what kind of listening is called for in different situations. We discuss how challenging it is to listen to people who have committed sex crimes as a therapist, and David discusses how trying to understand the context and purpose of the offender’s words - how he fits into their life for one – can balance can balance the possible sympathy for that person and the role of reflection in listening. As a frequent laugher, we discuss the risk of laughter in conversation and how this can be misinterpreted.

Alli O’Malley joins us from good old Rochester NY. She served as CEO of RESOLVE of Greater Rochester (resolve-roc.org), a community based domestic violence prevention organization from 2008-2019. Alli is a survivor of inter-generational domestic violence, and is a strong voice for reforming systems to better address not only the needs of victims/survivors but also of perpetrators to ensure they desist from further violence and coercion. In our interview she suggests that preventing domestic violence involves promoting agency for both victims and those who abused them; and together we explore common challenges of the work, including the prevalence of the issue, necessary changes in related language and terminology, victim blaming, and gaps in community responses that focus on punishment instead of remediation.

In early June I went out to a Black Lives Matter protest and interviewed people there for their opinions. I focused on listening to the protest, but also wondered why listening is hard for people who disagree with BLM. Listen to a young woman Rae, to Julio Nieves of SOAR (Shades of America Riders- SOAR Riding Club), and to Dara (https://www.roberts.edu/facultystaff/dara-delgado/) and Ivan Delgado who share their insights. We talk about the great Cornel West who I saw years ago at Oberlin College, and recently at RIT. These are powerful interviews, focusing on Listening as it pertains to personal growth, Black Lives Matter, and change.

Todd Malloy, Marriage and Family Therapist and Certified Sex Therapist and Sex Educator, clinical Director of Inner Peace Counseling (https://innerpeacecounselingcenter.com/) and Treasurer of the Board of Directors AASECT July 1 2018 – June 30 2020, joins us to talk about Systemic Racism. Todd and I discuss this important topic, how he was challenged by racist educational policy; how he constantly reinvents and challenges himself to achieve excellence, and a host of other related issues. We briefly discuss AASECT’s position statement on Black Lives Matter which can be found here: https://www.aasect.org/black-lives-matter-commitment-aasect-board-directors

In this episode of On Listening I interview Doug Braun Harvey MFT, CGP. Doug’s work on sex-drug linked behavior and his rethinking of sex addiction have had a profound effect on me and the entire field of sex therapy. In this episode Doug listens in a manner that is unfamiliar yet highly attuned. I find the experience a bit humbling and affirming at the same time. We talk about the gift of interrupting, how to receive praise, and the stories we tell ourselves as listeners; stories which interrupt our focus on the person to whom we are listening. This episode is like a psychology continuing education credit. Therapists and coaches will find it a useful tool for their clients who wish to listen in new ways.

In this episode I speak with Scott Miller PhD (scottdmiller.com). Scott dedicates himself to research and training which improve therapist outcomes thereby enriching the lives of clients and therapists themselves. He shares insights from this work as well as detouring from his usual areas of expertise. We discuss future strategies for the Covid 19 pandemic, implicit and explicit emotions, how to interpret data and avoid being misled by experts (i.e. look for the Counterfactual), the importance of measuring outcomes and deliberately practicing challenging conversations in counseling. We get a sense of Scott personally as he shares reflections of an experience in his own therapy.

In this episode we talk to Amanda Wattie https://amandawattie.com/) Somatic sex educator. She leads me in an exercise listening to the body, discusses exploring consent with Betty Martin’s Wheel of Consent for sex (https://bettymartin.org/videos/), and how she came to be in this profession. She leaves us with some ideas about listening and some of the blocks that hold us back – like fear of the unknown.

In this episode Tempest takes us into her world of listening. An author and more, Tempest has a challenge for us: Can we understand what episode one of British crime series Sherlock (https://www.netflix.com/title/70202589) teaches us? Get ready to watch it as a midpoint in the show!

In this episode my dear friend and cousin musician Joanna Schubert (https://www.joannaschubert.com/) talks about listening, ASMR, music and losing her voice. Check out her music - it is a true listening pleasure.

In this episode Steven Benjamin, LCSW-R(https://itherapy.com/counselor/steven-benjamin/) talks with his long time friend and colleague about listening as a psychotherapist. We touch on getting feedback from clients and the "dark side" of listening. Yes, the friend is, Dan Rosen, your host.

In this episode Kit Miller of the M.K. Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence (https://gandhiinstitute.org/) takes us on her own journey to become a better listener. Filled with vulnerability and wisdom, Kit brings us into her world and encourages us to strive to understand others.

In this episode Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz (http://www.optimalsexualexperiences.com/) shares her training and unique method of listening to others. Tune in; it is a real treat to hear her experiences of listening experientially and the joy she took researching the Great Lovers who have enviable optimal sex!

On Listening is an exploration of listening in all its forms. Our guests will take you on an auditory journey to deepen your appreciation of listening. Experts in a variety of fields as well as everyday people will share their insights and experiences listening to others, to their own bodies, to data, and to themselves. People often strive to listen better, more skillfully, less hurriedly; here we will also explore the “dark side” of listening. Is it always healthy to listen? Are good listeners ever harmed? Join me as we both explore the human experience of listening.
Your Host,
Daniel Rosen, LCSW-R, CST