Professional Military Education
The Professional Military Education (PME) podcast is where great books on war and history are analyzed and discussed with the author. Through in depth conversations, the PME podcast seeks to promote great books that will interest serious military thinkers. For people that might be interested in military topics and history, the PME podcast will get you hooked on this awesome field of study. Through in depth reading and serious scholarship, the PME podcast is proud to bring a great history show to life.
Dr. Victor Davis Hanson joins me to discuss the state of military education. Throughout the interview, we touch on a lot of issues from the current state of military readiness to the lack of military education in colleges and universities. Dr. Hanson is a military historian, classicist, and author of numerous books on military history. It was good to let him speak his mind on a variety of important topics. I appreciate his candor and willingness to share his insight that comes from a lifetime dedicated to studying history.
Key Topics include:
- How to get people interested in military history
- The importance of military history to understanding human nature
- Epaminondas and the downfall of Sparta
- A discussion of leaders to study including General Ulysses S. Grant and General William T. Sherman
- A discussion on the causes of war
- Why is military history neglected by most colleges and universities?
- Dr. Hanson’s candid assessment of today’s military and the issues that it faces
- What the heck is postmodernism?
Books Mentioned:
Carnage and Culture Landmark Battles in the Rise to Western Power
A War Like No Other: How the Athenians and Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War
The Western Way of War: Infantry Battle in Classical Greece
The Landmark Thucydides: A Comprehensive Guide to the Peloponnesian War
Grant and Sherman: Civil War Memoirs (2 Volumes)
Follow Dr. Hanson on Twitter: @VDHanson
Dr. Hanson’s website
Hoover Institute website
American Greatness website
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If you like this interview, and want to hear others, subscribe in iTunes, Spotify, Audible, or Amazon podcasts. Support the show with written reviews, share on social media, and through word of mouth. To request additional shows or guests, e-mail me: tim@professionalmilitaryeducation.com
In this interview, I spoke with The Honorable Juan Zarate. The topic: Money!
Juan was the first-ever assistant secretary of the treasury for terrorist financing and financial crimes. We speak about his work at the Treasury Department in the post-9/11 period. During this time, Juan played a critical role in using the Treasury’s resources to go after terrorist financing. Additionally, the Treasury assisted in tracking down money that Saddam Hussein and his cronies had moved and hid outside of Iraq. Additionally, Treasury’s role became much more expansive beyond the Global War on Terror. In fact, we discuss how the Treasury became a much more formidable influencer of foreign policy against countries like Iran and North Korea. The legacy of these policy shifts continues to this day.
Key Topics include:
- Juan’s background and his work at the Treasury Department
- Historical examples of financial leverage being used tactically
- Treasury’s evolving role after 9/11
- Pursuing terrorist financing and making it harder and costlier for terrorist groups to move money around the world
- How the Treasury Department used its resources to isolate North Korea
- How the Treasury Department used a similar tactic against Iran
- Implications for today and how other countries might employ the same tactics against the United States
The impetus for the interview was the book, Treasury’s War, which was published in 2013. The book remains relevant to this day. Juan is currently the global co-managing partner and chief strategy officer of K2 Integrity.
Follow Juan on Twitter: @JCZarate1
Check out the Book: Treasury's War: The Unleashing of a New Era of Financial Warfare
Current work: K2 Integrity
Co-Founder and Chairman of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies’ (FDD) Center on Economic and Financial Power (CEFP). Check out the FDD
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If you like this interview, and want to hear others, subscribe in iTunes, Spotify, Audible, or Amazon podcasts. Support the show with written reviews, share on social media, and through word of mouth. To request additional shows or guests, e-mail me: tim@professionalmilitaryeducation.com
Check out the website: www.professionalmilitaryeducation.com
In this episode of the PME Podcast, I speak with General Robert Spalding (USAF- Ret.). General Spalding wrote a book called Stealth War: How China Took Over While America’s Elite Slept.
General Spalding’s knowledge of China stretches back to his early years as a Major in the Air Force when he lived and studied in China. In recent years, he served in the National Security Council (NSC) where he was the Senior Director for Strategy. His work at the NSC included crafting the 2017 National Security Strategy and initiatives on 5G technology to protect what General Spalding considers America’s most vital resource... data!
In this interview, we discuss a wide range of topics including:
- The nature of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and how their ideas of warfare span across the domains of politics, economics, higher education, technology, and communications.
- A look at the book Unrestricted Warfare published by two People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Colonels in the late 1990s
- Why China advocates for an “open” economic system and General Spalding’s belief that the People’s Republic of China (PRC) is using financial leverage as a key component of their strategy
- The 5G Revolution and the need to protect data and technology infrastructure
- The CCP’s influence in U.S. higher education and politics
- We discuss the role of the military. Can the U.S. military help deter and prevent the CCP’s objectives? Is there a military solution to a stealth war?
- Information warfare and COVID-19
Books and Resources:
General Spalding’s website: General Spalding | National Security Expert and Patriot Entrepreneur
Stealth War: How China Took Over While America’s Elite Slept
Unrestricted Warfare: China’s Master Plan to Destroy America
General Spalding’s article on 5G
Stealth War Project link
2017 National Security Strategy
Follow General Spalding on Twitter: @robert_spalding
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If you like this interview, and want to hear others, subscribe in iTunes, Spotify, Audible, or Amazon podcasts. Support the show with written reviews, share on social media, and through word of mouth. To request additional shows or guests, e-mail me: tim@professionalmilitaryeducation.com
Check out the website: www.professionalmilitaryeducation.com
Stealth War: How China Took Over While America's Elite Slept
Unrestricted Warfare:
Unrestricted Warfare: China's Master Plan to Destroy America
General Spalding website link:
General Spalding | National Security Expert and Patriot Entrepreneur
5G Article Link
https://www.stealth-war.org/reports/nbr-data-security-in-a-5g-world-why-it-matters-more-than-ever/
Stealth War Project Link:
https://www.stealth-war.org/about-us/the-project/
National Security Strategy link:
http://nssarchive.us/national-security-strategy-2017/
What are the chances that China invades Taiwan? Do they plan on doing invading soon? If so, how would they do it?
My guest is Ian Easton, the author of The Chinese Invasion Threat. In the interview, we talk at length about the possibility of a Chinese invasion. Ian is well-versed in the issue having spent many years living and studying in Taiwan. He possesses a wealth of knowledge. In his book, he dives deep into the details of what an invasion would look like. Among the many topics we cover are the following:
- The nature of Taiwan’s democratic government and advanced economy
- The Chinese Civil War between the Communists and Nationalists that caused the current day split
- How America’s diplomatic relations toward Taiwan evolved throughout the Cold War
- How equipped and ready is Taiwan to defend itself from an invasion
- The many domains in which China is seeking to lay the groundwork for an invasion
- Why an invasion is extremely difficult, and lessons learned from World War II
- How China under Xi Jinping was able to become militarily more dominant than Taiwan
This is an important topic which Ian describes as one of the most consequential foreign policy issues facing the United States. It is a must read for military and defense members wanting to get more familiar with the dynamics of the Indo-Pacific theater.
Check out Ian’s book-
The Chinese Invasion Threat: Taiwan’s Defense and American Strategy in Asia
Follow Ian Easton’s work at The Project 2049 Institute. Click here for the website
HELP SPREAD THE WORD!
If you like this interview, and want to hear others, subscribe in iTunes, Spotify, Audible, or Amazon podcasts. Support the show with written reviews, share on social media, and through word of mouth. To request additional shows or guests, e-mail me: tim@professionalmilitaryeducation.com
Check out the website: www.professionalmilitaryeducation.com
In this two-part episode, I speak with LtCol Scott Cuomo (USMC). He is the author of an article that appeared in the Marine Corps Gazette called, Not Yet Openly at War, But Still Mostly at Peace. He wrote the article with a team of Marines that include: Captain Olivia Garard, Major Jeff Cummings, and LtCol Noah Spataro.
The purpose of the article was to re-think what the Marine Corps should be doing in 2019 and beyond. The co-author team suggests that the Marine Corps needs to implement a “new big idea.” The “big idea” looks beyond the Marine Corps’ historical mission of Joint Forcible Entry Operations (JFEO) through traditional amphibious assault.
LtCol Cuomo references a report that came out of the Senate Armed Services Committee and an article called “SASC Seeks Sweeping ‘Roles & Missions’ Report: Wither the Marines?”. This article served as a call to action to the Marine Corps to re-think their role in the modern defense era.
We look at the Marine Corps’ mission in the context of the 2017 National Security Strategy and 2018 National Defense Strategy
The National Security Strategy states the following:
“China and Russia want to shape a world antithetical to U.S. values and interests. China seeks to displace the United States in the Indo-Pacific region, expand the reaches of its state-driven economic model, and reorder the region in its favor.”
A bi-partisan, National Defense Commission Report concluded that the National Security Strategy was accurate in assessing the strategic threat. However, there needed to be clear operational concepts developed too. LtCol Cuomo dives into the weeds of the operational environment as we discuss the “Contact layer, the blunt layer, the surge layer, and the homeland defense layer.”
LtCol Cuomo thinks that Marines need to be focused on operating in the contact layer. Moreover, the Marine Corps has a unique opportunity to do this right now. Bottom line: This is a defining moment in Marine Corps history.
In the second part of the interview, we talk about the Marine Corps Commandants’ Planning Guidance (CPG). The CPG was published in July after General David Berger took over as the 38th Commandant of the Marine Corps.
LtCol Cuomo mentions that General Berger was commander of the Marines in Pacific Command prior to becoming Commandant. Thus, the current Commandant has a good outlook on the challenges and problems taking place in the Indo-Pacific region.
We talk about several topics in the Commandant’s Planning Guidance to include: Force design, force modernization, III Marine Expeditionary Force (MEF), distributed operations in partnership with the Navy, and other ways that Marines can conduct distributed naval operations.
It’s a fascinating interview that covers a lot of relevant topics from strategy to tactics.
To connect with the guest, please shoot me an e-mail at the address below.
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If you like this interview, and want to hear others, subscribe in iTunes and Spotify. Support the show with written reviews, share on social media, and through word of mouth. To request additional shows or guests, e-mail me: tim@professionalmilitaryeducation.com
Check out the website: www.professionalmilitaryeducation.com
Looking to talk Maneuver Warfare? I’ve partnered with The Maneuverist to promote thoughtful discussions on maneuver warfare. Check out the themaneuverist.org and get involved with some great people having important conversations.
Robert Coram is the author of an excellent biography called American Patriot: The Life and Wars of Colonel Bud Day.
Colonel Day is a larger than life figure. He is one of the most decorated veterans in American military history. This interview with Mr. Coram spans the course of Colonel Day’s life from his small-town upbringing in Iowa to his service as an Air Force pilot and prisoner of war (POW) in North Vietnam.
Colonel Day is best known for his time during the Vietnam War because he was shot down and imprisoned in the infamous Hanoi Hilton. In fact, he was roommates with the late Senator John McCain. The two men served as POWs for five years until their release in the Spring of 1973. As a result of his steadfast commitment to resisting and upholding the Code of Conduct, Colonel Day was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor in 1976 by President Gerald Ford.
A recurring theme of Colonel Day’s legacy is honor. Colonel Day constantly repeated the phrase “return with honor” while being tortured by his North Vietnamese captors. This interview examines the core value of honor through the life and legacy of Colonel Bud Day. Robert Coram says that he was personally honored to have spent two and a half years with Colonel Day while writing the biography of his life. In talking to Mr. Coram, it was clear that he was greatly influenced by Colonel Day. I have no doubt that many other people will be influenced by the life and legacy of Colonel Bud Day, a great American Patriot.
Check out the book and the other biographies written by Robert Coram:
American Patriot: The Life and Wars of Colonel Bud Day
Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War
Brute: The Life of Victor Krulak, U.S. Marine
Double Ace: The Life of Robert Lee Scott Jr., Pilot, Hero, and Teller of Tall Tales
Robert Coram’s website: http://robertcoram.com/
HELP SPREAD THE WORD!
If you like this interview, and want to hear others, subscribe in iTunes and Spotify. Support the show with written reviews, share on social media, and through word of mouth. For any requests for additional shows or guests, e-mail me: tim@professionalmilitaryeducation.com
Check out the website: www.professionalmilitaryeducation.com
Today’s guest is Lt. Col Thiele (USMC-Ret.). He is the co-author of 4th Generation Warfare Handbook, which he wrote with William (“Bill”) Lind.
In the interview, Lt. Col Thiele explains that while he was working as an instructor at the Marine Corps’ Expeditionary Warfighting School (EWS), he met Bill Lind, who introduced him to some of the ideas of 4th Generation Warfare. Together they began to collaborate on the 4th Generation Warfare Handbook.
Lt. Col Thiele mentions that he was motivated by the question, “What does victory look like?” He had this question after returning from deployment to Iraq where he saw that even though the violence was decreasing, the U.S. still seemed far from victory.
In the interview, Lt. Col Thiele focuses on the evolution of warfare through what he describes as three generations. The bulk of the fighting in the previous three generations occurred between state actors. That is nation state fought nation state. However, his theory is that in 4th Generation of Warfare, states will have to fight non-state actors i.e. any group with a specific cause or ideology.
We had a good conversation, and I challenged Lt. Col Thiele on a few points that are worth discussing. First, what is the difference between 4th Generation Warfare and counterinsurgency? By this, I was trying to figure out if 4th Generation Warfare was simply another name for counterinsurgency.
Second, 4th Generation Warfare presumes that there will not be state versus state hostilities in future generations. I pushed Lt. Col Thiele to explain how and why he believes this to be the case.
The interview covers a lot of ground with issues relevant to the modern-day infantry. Lt. Col Thiele talks about “light infantry” tactics and training. It is good to think about whether the infantry is being properly trained and prepared for the next fight. It is hard to predict what that fight could be. However, these types of discussions and books should get people to think and engage, which is critical to preparing for success on future battlefields.
Check out the book:
4th Generation Warfare Handbook
HELP SPREAD THE WORD!
If you like this interview, and want to hear others, subscribe in iTunes. Support the show with written reviews, share on social media, and through word of mouth. For any requests for additional shows or guests, e-mail me: tim@professionalmilitaryeducation.com
Check out the website: www.professionalmilitaryeducation.com
Today’s guest is Hampton Sides. He is the author of On Desperate Ground: The Marines at the Reservoir, the Korean War’s Greatest Battle.
The topic is the Battle of the Chosin Reservoir. This battle took place in the Fall and Winter of 1950 during the Korean War. Marines were surrounded at the Chosin Reservoir by over 100,000 of Mao’s Red Army forces. With their backs to the wall and facing total annihilation, they fought back with tenacity and determination. The fighting took place in sub-zero temperatures on unforgiving terrain. The Chinese attacked the Marines at night with wave after wave of soldiers storming the Marines positions. The fighting became hand to hand quickly. Marines used knives, bayonets, canteens, and helmets to repel the Chinese attackers.
In the end the Marines and Allied forces were able to execute a withdrawal from the Chosin Reservoir. They were surrounded by an overwhelming force and against all odds managed to execute a complicate maneuver to avoid destruction.
In the interview, Hampton discusses many topics to include:
- How the Korean War was a failure of intelligence
- The difference in leadership between Generals MacArthur and General Oliver P Smith
- The nature of the fighting and what it was like for the Marines on the ground
- How the war ended or didn’t end
Finally, in researching his book, Hampton talked to many veterans of the war. He explains how the Korean War became considered the “forgotten war.” However, books like On Desperate Ground help keep the memory of Korean War and those veterans alive.
This episode is dedicated to the brave men and women who served our nation during the Korean War. We should never forget the service and sacrifice of so many great Americans.
Check out Hampton’s book:
On Desperate Ground: The Marines at The Reservoir, the Korean War's Greatest Battle
Hampton Sides website: http://www.hamptonsides.com/
HELP SPREAD THE WORD!
If you like this interview, and want to hear others, subscribe in iTunes. Support the show with written reviews, share on social media, and through word of mouth. For any requests for additional shows or guests, e-mail me: tim@professionalmilitaryeducation.com
Check out the website: www.professionalmilitaryeducation.com
My guest is Dr. Leonard Wong a research professor at the U.S. Army War College’s Strategic Studies Institute. In February 2015, he co-authored a paper with Stephen Gerras called “Lying to Ourselves: Dishonesty in the Army Profession.” The interview explores how a culture of “ethical laziness” has spread throughout military branches like the U.S. Army. The essential question is whether the Army system has eroded virtues like integrity. Dr. Wong argues that through overtasking and too many training requirements, military leaders will consciously report inaccuracies. But, is this malicious? Is it a new phenomenon? What can military leaders do now to recover the core values that make the profession of arms so widely respected? This conversation will stir a lot of passionate debates and emotions, but that is a good thing. I applaud Dr. Wong for taking on this topic. It will only challenge military leaders to think and improve our profession.
Be sure to follow Dr. Wong’s current and future work by finding him online. Click on the link below:
https://ssi.armywarcollege.edu/pubs/people.cfm?authorID=1
In this interview, I talk to Sebastian Junger. Sebastian wrote Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging. Sebastian is also the author of The Perfect Storm, which was made into a major film. His films include the award-winning documentaries Restrepo and Korengal.
Sebastian Junger began his career as a journalist in war town countries such as Bosnia and Afghanistan. Through his own struggles with PTSD and his study of units on the battlefield, Sebastian dives deep into what it is like for someone to return from war. What are the struggles of returning to modern society where life is easy, and people are separated from each other? How has the loss of community hurt veterans returning from battle?
Sebastian takes on difficult topics, and challenges us to think about issues related to the state of American society.
Be sure to check out Sebastian’s website: http://www.sebastianjunger.com/
What is “maneuver warfare”? Who is Air Force Colonel John Boyd, who throughout the late 1970s and 1980s found a captive audience in the Marine Corps leadership?
In Episode 11, Major Ian Brown discusses the evolution of the Marine Corps' doctrinal publication, MCDP-1: Warfighting. Furthermore, he focuses on the contribution of Air Force Colonel John Boyd, who developed a brief called “Patterns of Conflict.” This brief combined Boyd’s study of military history with his earlier technical development of Energy-Maneuverability (E-M) theory. The result was a transformational concept of warfare by maneuver, which the Marine Corps released in 1989 in a publication called “Fleet Marine Force Manual 1” (FMFM 1). FMFM 1 was later revised and updated under the direction of General Krulak, 31st Commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps. In 1997, Marine Corps Doctrinal Publication 1 was published under the name Warfighting.
Maj Brown wrote a book entitled, A New Conception of War: John Boyd, the U.S. Marines, and Maneuver Warfare. The book is scheduled for release in the summer of 2018. Maj Brown highlights the context and history of the era in which the Marine Corps began to develop its doctrine of maneuver warfare. Maj Brown talks about the principal authors of FMFM-1 and later MCDP1 to include Captain John Schmitt, who was originally tasked with the writing by General Al Gray Jr., 29th Commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps.
In Part 1 of this two-part interview, Maj Brown focuses on MCDP1: Warfighting as a book that is timeless because it talks about the human nature of warfighting. Furthermore, Maj Brown discusses the history of the post-Vietnam era, and then dives deep into Colonel John Boyd’s work and contribution to maneuver warfare.
In the second part of this interview, Maj Brown goes through the text of MCDP1: Warfighting in more detail.
For copies of Maj Brown’s book, A New Conception of War, send advanced requests to mcu_press@usmcu.edu
Find out more at - https://www.
In episode 10 of the Professional Military Education podcast, we talk to B.A. Friedman, author of On Tactics: A Theory of Victory in Battle. The conversation focuses on tactics and its relationship to strategy. Mr. Friedman discusses what he calls the three tactical tenets- physical, mental, and moral. He discusses how he developed his theory of tactics, and how that theory can be applied by military thinkers.
Be sure to follow Mr. Friedman on Twitter @BA_Friedman
Like On Tactics on Facebook, https://www.facebook.com/ontactics/
HELP SPREAD THE WORD!
If you like this interview, and want to hear others, subscribe in iTunes. Support the show with written reviews, share on social media, and through word of mouth. For any requests for additional shows or guests, e-mail me: tim@professionalmilitaryeducation.com
In the following interview, Dr. Bruce Bechtol discusses the threat of North Korea. North Korea has made headlines for their ICBM tests and nuclear tests. We discuss the threat that they pose as well as dive into the details of their regime, their current leader, past provocations, weapons systems, and options that the U.S. and its allies have to deal with them.
Dr. Bechtol is Associate Professor of political science at Angelo State University in Texas. He is a retired U.S. Marine, and wrote the lead article in the December 2016 edition of the Marine Corps Gazette. The article was called "A Marine's Guide to North Korea."
North Korea Threat Synopsis
We begin the interview discussing the current situation between the U.S. and North Korea. North Korea recently threatened to fire ICBMs at Guam. But, Kim Jong-un backed down... for now. Dr. Bechtol talks about the different types of missiles that the North Koreans have including Musadan, KN-08, and KN-14 missiles.
The Washington Post reported North Korea's advancement of miniaturized nuclear warheads. But, Dr. Bechtol says that this is nothing defense officials haven't been aware of for several years. However, what has changed is that they have successfully tested the range of their ICBMs, and have displayed that they are capable of hitting the U.S. or Guam.
Dr. Bechtol discusses the current defense capabilities that the U.S. has to bring down a North Korean ICBM.
The North Korean State
What type of state is North Korea? North Korea (aka Democratic People's Republic of Korea or DPRK) a “dynastic” system, run by elites with a love for Joseph Stalin.
Who is Kim Jong-un? He was educated in Switzerland and grew up loving NBA basketball. Some thought he might be a moderate leader when he came to power. But, as a leader, he has ruled North Korea with an iron fist and carried out many purges. Dr. Bechtol talks about the political institutions in North Korea- the Party, the Military, and the Security Services. In the political system of the DPRK, everyone is watching everyone else. It's a bizarre system of "checks and balances" in which "big brother" is always watching and threatening.
Dr. Bechtol talks about how Kim Jong-un may not have the support of the North Korean military. Thus, he has used military tests, provocations, and brinkmanship to solidify his support. What type of cyber technology does North Korea have? They have hacked Sony, hacked NGO's, and hacked South Korean financial institutions.
The North Korean "Play Book"
Dr. Bechtol breaks down the tactics of North Korea's violent provocations. They conduct "short" attacks to inflict massive casualties to strike fear in the hearts and minds of South Koreans. But, South Korea has stepped up their defenses to deter and respond to the North's provocations.
We discuss the current command and control structure between the U.S. and South Korea (aka Republic of Korea or ROK). The Combined Forces Command (CFC) establishes unity of command between U.S. and ROK forces. In the event of war, the CFC commander, a four-star general, takes his strategic and operational guidance from the U.S. national command authority and the ROK Minister of National Defense.
Contingency Planning?
Dr. Bechtol assesses how and why the U.S. and China are working to plan for "contingencies." What would happen if the North Korean regime collapsed? The U.S. and China would need to cooperate. Dr. Bechtol says that the current government of North Korea will implode and states it's a matter of "if not when." At that point, the U.S. will need to work directly with China.
On August 16, General Dunford, the Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, met with Chinese military leaders in China.
Dr. Bechtol reiterates the need for the U.S. to develop its ballistic missile defense (BMD) technology.
How could the North Korean regime collapse? Dr. Bechtol explains, "Planning is a nightmare." There are hundreds of possible scenarios for a collapse.
If North Korea collapses, Dr. Bechtol mentions that forces have been training to recover nuclear and chemical weapons. He says that they could fetch a high price on black markets.
Conclusion
What does Dr. Bechtol think the U.S. should do right now? Two things:
- Update BMD technology.
- Use economic pressure. For example, the Patriot Act Section 311 goes after banks that do business with rogue regimes. Dr. Bechtol says we need to use this. Bottom Line: Sanctions need to be enforced. The U.S. needs to stand up an inter-agency task force to make it happen.
Be sure to keep an eye out for Dr. Bechtol's next book, Enabling Instability and Violence, which will be published in 2018.
For more information, check out www.professionalmilitaryeducation.com for links to articles, videos, and additional resources.
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If you like this interview, and want to hear others, subscribe in iTunes. Support the show with written reviews, share on social media, and through word of mouth. For any requests for additional shows or guests, e-mail me: tim@professionalmilitaryeducation.com
Dr. Kori Schake co-authored, "Restoring Our National Security", with Secretary of Defense James N. Mattis and James O. Ellis Jr. The chapter appeared in the book, Blueprint for America, which was published by Stanford Universities Hoover Institute.
Dr. Schake is a professor of history at Stanford, and is a research fellow at the Hoover Institute. She also co-edited a book with Secretary Mattis called, Warriors and Citizens: American Views of our Military.
Key Takeaways:
- Schake describes working with Secretary of Defense James Mattis. She says, "We are both argumentative." Dr. Schake claims that since meeting Secretary Mattis, they have had many long running debates specifically about the political composition of the Middle East.
- I asked Dr. Schake about her definition of strategy. She defines it as, "The way you connect political objectives to their execution. How you identify the means and array them so you have the highest likelihood of being able to carry out your objectives."
- Schake’s nephew Captain Barret Schake, a pilot in the U.S. Air Force, also joined us and talked about his recent deployments to Iraq.
- We talk about the influence of Iran in Iraq. Dr. Schake claims that Iran is "absolutely a threat" and explains why she considers them to be a major source of instability in the region.
- On Russia, Dr. Schake offered a scathing rebuke. "This Russian government is genuinely evil. They mean us harm. They will do us harm when they have the opportunity."
- We talk about North Korea. She describes North Korea's fundamental purpose as regime survival, and, as a result, she does not see North Korea as a state willing to "use military force." She says that North Korea is trying to achieve the objective of "regime preservation."
- On the question of how America continues to assert a positive influence throughout the world, Dr. Schake claims that our form of government continues to be a magnet for the best talent in the world. Despite America's flaws, the U.S. continues to be a bulwark for hope and a better life for people throughout the globe.
- Secretary Mattis and Dr. Schake co-authored a book called Warriors and Citizens that looks at the changing nature of America's attitude towards U.S. military leaders. Due to the military being held in high regard, Dr. Schake worries that the "suits can hide behind the uniform." Furthermore, she says that the public wants the military engaged in political life in a way that will harm the public's respect for the military.
Dr. Schake is publishing a book called Safe Passage, a history of the transition from British to American dominance in the international order, which will be published in the fall of 2017 by Harvard University Press.
Follow Dr. Schake on Twitter @KoriSchake
For more information, check out www.professionalmilitaryeducation.com for links to articles, videos, and additional resources.
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If you like this interview, and want to hear others, subscribe in iTunes. Support the show with written reviews, share on social media, and through word of mouth. For any requests for additional shows or guests, e-mail me: tim@professionalmilitaryeducation.com
Sir Lawrence Freedman is Professor of War Studies at King’s College and the author of numerous books and publications to include Strategy: A History. In Episode 7 of the PME podcast, we talk about strategy. What is strategy and what it is not? We trace its historical roots, and discuss how traditional views of strategy still apply or do not apply to today’s conflicts and future conflicts. Additionally, Sir Lawrence Freedman was elected a Fellow of the British Academy in 1995 and awarded the CBE (Commander of the British Empire) in 1996. He was appointed Official Historian of the Falklands Campaign in 1997. He was awarded the KCMG (Knight Commander of St Michael and St George) in 2003. Finally, he was appointed in June 2009 to serve as a member of the official inquiry into Britain and the 2003 Iraq War.
Key Takeaways:
“Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.”
-Mike Tyson
•What is strategy? Strategy involves making decisions when faced with “other people with their own plans and interests.” It requires flexibility. Planning is part of strategy, but having a plan is not a strategy. “Problem solving” is a critical component of strategy.
•In late nineteenth century Germany, Field Marshall Helmuth von Moltke the elder was chief of staff of the Prussian Army. He was a student of Carl von Clausewitz. As a military strategist, Von Moltke emphasized the importance of flexibility. He said, “A plan breaks down on first contact.” Additionally, Field Marshall Helmuth von Moltke saw military strategy as a “system of expedients.”
•Sir Lawrence Freedman explains that American foreign policy doctrine (i.e. the Nixon Doctrine, Carter Doctrine, Bush Doctrine, Obama Doctrine) is a means of “signaling” to the world America’s priorities or intentions. It is part of strategy, but it is not itself a strategy.
•Sun Tzu’s influence on strategy was based on the idea of “cunning and cleverness.” However, the flaw in strategy based on cunning is when both sides attempt to use cunning and cleverness against each other. We talk about whether countries like Russia and China use Sun Tzu’s methods to achieve their strategic aims. What are Russia’s interests? A conversation I had with Steven Lee Myers on his book The New Tsar is worth checking out to discover more on that topic.
•Thucydides was the first “realist” historian. He wrote a book about the Peloponnesian War between Sparta and Athens in a book appropriately called The History of the Peloponnesian War. Sir Lawrence Freedman sites a book called Destined for War by Graham Allison. Destined for War describes a theory called the “Thucydides Trap” which is based on the idea that one power becomes fearful of the rise of another power and postulates that this might have ramifications for current and future relations between the United States and China. However, Sir Lawrence Freedman sees some flaws in this theory, and thinks that Thucydides had an interest in trying to preserve the reputation of Pericles.
•We discuss whether there is something “elemental” to strategy. Sir Lawrence Freedman looked at chimpanzees and how they form coalitions and act in strategic ways. Winston Churchill (not a chimpanzee rather British Prime Minister) was good at applying the chimp-like principles of creating coalitions to achieve his strategic aims. Churchill sought to partner with President Roosevelt to get the U.S. on the allied side. When Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, Churchill sought to build a coalition with Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union to fight the Nazis.
•We talk about Napoleon and the development of strategy during the Enlightenment. Much like Thucydides rejection of the gods, the enlightenment rejected superstitious beliefs and emphasized what reason and human rationality could do to achieve strategic aims.
•Two critical 19th Century strategic thinkers include the Swiss officer, Antoine Henri Jomini, and the Prussian military theorist, Carl Von Clausewitz. Jomini emphasized the “decisive battle” strategy. Meanwhile, Clausewitz focused on the policy objectives of war. Clausewitz is also famous for developing the term “fog of war,” which refers to the uncertainty and the chaos of war when it involves two competing wills, each one trying to impose itself on the other.
•The challenges of military strategy. How do wars end? We talk about “The Clausewitzian Challenge”, and I allude to my previous conversation with Gideon Rose, editor of Foreign Affairs, who wrote an excellent book called How Wars End.
•Finally, we talk about the strategy of the Cold War and nuclear deterrence. Sir Lawrence Freedman mentions a strategist named Thomas Schelling, who is worth studying for his contributions to strategy based on Game Theory. We discuss the “rationality of irrationality,” which refers to the necessity to use caution based on a fear that one side might act out of irrationality.
•Sir Lawrence Freedman has a new book coming out in the Fall of 2017 called, The Future of War: A History. The book focuses on how people in the past have tried to predict changes in warfare and predict the future of war.
For more information: Check out www.professionalmilitaryeducation.com
Be sure to follow Sir Lawrence Freedman on Twitter @LawDavF and check out the book, Strategy: A History
Books and Resources mentioned in the podcast:
The History of the Peloponnesian War
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If you like this interview and want to hear others, be sure to subscribe in iTunes. Support the show with written reviews, share on social media, and through word of mouth. For any requests for additional shows or guests, e-mail me: tim@professionalmilitaryeducation.com
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Jay Solomon is a reporter for the Wall Street Journal and the author of The Iran Wars: Spy Games, Bank Battles, and the Secret Deals That Reshaped the Middle East. In Episode 6 of the PME podcast, the history of the conflict between the U.S. and Iran is covered along with the events and negotiations that led to the nuclear agreement of July 2015. Mr. Solomon talks about how pressure was exerted on Iran to bring them to negotiate, and observes how the model of economic sanctions might be used against countries like North Korea. The interview also highlights the complexity of foreign policy in the Middle East. Mr. Solomon also talks about Iran’s use of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) and their Quds force to achieve their strategic objectives.
Key Takeaways:
- The U.S. historically supported Iran as an ally in the region against the Soviet Union. Iran is a Shiite dominated country. They view themselves as the historical great power in the region upholding the legacy of the Persian Empire.
- The Islamic Revolution of 1979 changed U.S. foreign policy overnight. An ally was swiftly replaced with a foe, whose leader, Ayatollah Khomeini, called America “the great Satan.”
- To counter the U.S., Iran allies with enemies of America to include Sunni groups and secular regimes. Their strategic objectives include spreading the Islamic revolution to other countries to include Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, and Palestinian territories.
- On November 4, 1979, Iranian students stormed the U.S. Embassy in Tehran. For the next 444 days, 52 Americans were held hostage in Iran. President Carter authorized Operation Eagle Claw, which was an attempt to free the hostages with a military rescue. However, a vicious sandstorm caused the rescue effort to fail before the helicopters could reach Tehran.
- The Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps was established to protect the revolution at home, but they also use the Quds force to export the revolution abroad. The Quds force, which comes from the word al-Quds meaning “Jerusalem”, is led by Major General Qasem Soleimani The Quds force has mobilized “tens of thousands of fighters in Syria” and continues to actively support Hezbollah and Hamas.
- Shortly after the Iranian Revolution, Saddam Hussein invaded Iran on September 22, 1980. Saddam saw Iran in a weakened military position, and sought to reclaim disputed territory with oil reserves. What followed was a bloody eight-year war in which Iraq eventually used deadly chemical weapons against Iran.
- After the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, there appeared to be a slight window in which rapprochement between Iran and the U.S. might have happened. However, with fundamentally misaligned strategic interests, this window quickly closed.
- The U.S. invasion of Iraq evolved quickly into a proxy battle in which Iran sought to use the Quds force to assert their influence. They funded Shiite based militias and supported businesses and politicians that supported their interests. Part of the U.S. rationale for an invasion dated back to the thinking that Iraq might be a Shiite ally used to counter Iran. This thesis was developed in a book by David Wurmser called Tyranny’s Ally.
- The Quds force under Sulemani continues to aggressively fund Shiite militias. The Quds force is used to serve Iran’s military and political objectives throughout the Middle East.
- The development of Iran’s nuclear program dated back to the 1950s, and was initially supported by the United States. However, as of 2002, reports surfaced that Iran had covertly worked to develop their nuclear program without UN knowledge.
- Iran’s nuclear program accelerated under hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad after his election 2005.
- In 2006, the U.S. responded to Iran’s nuclear program with tough sanctions targeting companies that did business with Iran. The goal was to cut Iran off from the international banking system and by 2012 this goal was largely achieved.
- Another attempt to counter Iran’s nuclear program included the use of malware (aka the “Stuxnet” virus), which caused Iranian centrifuges to spin out of control. In response, Iran developed their own cyber weapons capabilities.
- When President Obama took office, he shifted the strategic focus to direct engagement with Iran. He indicated clearly that the U.S. did not want regime change in Iran. However, his policy included many initial hurdles to include Iran’s “Green” movement. Additionally, military action was not used against Syria. Mr. Solomon suggests that restraint against Syria was to prevent Iran from walking away from nuclear negotiations.
- In November 2013, an interim agreement was concluded and led to the final nuclear agreement in July 2015. U.S. diplomats scaled back on initial “redlines” to include no enrichment, no missiles, no arms exportation. In ten years after the agreement, Iran will be able to have an industrial scale program to produce as much fissile material as they want.
- Mr. Solomon says that Iran’s negotiators knew the US political system better than U.S. diplomats understood the Iranian political system. For example, Javad Zarif was a “very smooth, western educated diplomat,” who worked directly with Secretary of State John Kerry.
- Twice since the 2015 agreement, Iran has nearly breached the terms of the deal. In one case the U.S. bought heavy water used to create plutonium from Iran. Russia bought the heavy water in the second instance.
- As the Middle East continues to be mired in conflict, the IRGC retains significant influence. The U.S. must calculate the IRGC and Iran’s proxies with any action taken in the region.
- Can the Iran sanctions model work against North Korea? China is the most important decider of North Korea’s economic fate. Can cybertechnology be used against North Korea? Is it possible to disrupt North Korean supply chains that support their missile development?
For more information: Check out www.professionalmilitaryeducation.com for links to articles, videos, and additional resources.
Be sure to follow Mr. Solomon on Twitter @wsjsolomon and check out the book, The Iran Wars: Spy Games, Bank Battles, and the Secret Deals That Reshaped the Middle East
HELP SPREAD THE WORD!
If you like this interview, and want to hear others, subscribe in iTunes. Support the show with written reviews, share on social media, and through word of mouth. For any requests for additional shows or guests, e-mail me: tim@professionalmilitaryeducation.com
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Steven Lee Myers is a columnist for the New York Times and the author of The New Tsar: The Rise and Reign of Vladimir Putin. Myers talks about the life and career of Vladimir Putin from his time as a KGB foreign intelligence officer to his current role as Russian president. The interview covers a wide range of Russian history from World War II to the current conflict in Ukraine.
Key Takeaways:
- What is a Tsar? Myers explains the historical role of a Tsar in Russia.
- Vladimir Putin’s upbringing in Leningrad what is called Saint Petersburg today. His early childhood in the Soviet Union. Putin grows up with the legacy of the “Great Patriotic War,” and is exposed to tales of “heroism and suffering.” As he prepares for a career in the KGB, Myers explains that Putin comes of age in the “high water mark” of the Soviet era.
- Inspired by a movie called The Shield and the Sword, Putin decides to join the KGB. Putin joins the foreign intelligence branch of the KGB in 1975 and is initially stationed in his home town of Leningrad. Later he is sent to Dresden in East Germany.
- Putin serves in East Germany when the Soviet Union collapses. He watches with “horror” as thousands of protestors overrun the Stasi HQ’s. However, Putin defiantly protects the KGB villa.
- As Putin returns to Saint Petersburg (formerly Leningrad), he works for a democratic reformer named Anatoly Sobchak, and becomes Sobchak’s deputy.
- After Sobchak’s electoral defeat in 1996, Putin’s moves to Moscow. Eventually he is appointed by Boris Yeltsin to be head of the FSB, the Russian equivalent of the FBI and the domestic security branch of the former KGB.
- As Boris Yeltsin looks for a successor, he considers Putin and appoints him as prime minister as a new war in Chechnya begins.
- Putin becomes Yeltsin’s successor to the presidency. He doesn’t have a strong ideology when he becomes president. Myers characterizes his initial term as “buffet style” politics. However, Putin’s thinking is influenced by silovik thinking, which advocates for strong state security.
- Terrorism comes to Russia in the form of apartment bombings, metro attacks, the Nord-Ost Theater siege, and Beslan hostage crisis. Myers talks about the way this influenced Putin’s ideas concerning the role of the state. “He sensed weakness and didn’t want to show that weakness.”
- The Kursk submarine disaster is the first major political setback for Putin. Putin’s disdain for the media is inflamed over this incident.
- Myers talks about Putin’s growing animosity with America concerning the ABM treaty- https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2001/12/20011213-2.html
- Putin gives a critical speech at the 2007 Munich Conference in which Putin claims “the United States, has overstepped its national borders in every way.” Myers explains that Russia thinks in terms of “spheres of influence.” Was this a warning to the West? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/12/AR2007021200555.html
- Watching the events of the Arab Spring, Putin eventually decides to intervene to support the Assad government.
- A discussion of Russia’s actions in Crimea, and the blend of “hard and soft” power to include information operations, irregular forces, and cyber operations to achieve Russian military objectives.
- Myers explains that the Ukraine is currently a “frozen conflict,” but the violence has not stopped.
- Myers discusses other issues to pay attention to such as events in Moldova and Georgia as well as disputed territory between Armenia and Azerbaijan, and current protests in Belarus.
For more information: Check out www.professionalmilitaryeducation.com for links to articles, videos, and other helpful resources.
Be sure to follow Mr. Myers on Twitter @stevenleemyers and check out the book The New Tsar: The Rise and Reign of Vladimir Putin
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If you like this interview, and want to hear others subscribe to the show in iTunes. Support the show with written reviews in iTunes, a share on social media, and through word of mouth.
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Key Takeaways:
[4:35] What was Gwynne’s inspiration to writing the book?
[6:05] Who was Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson?
[13:35] Why was Jackson against the Civil War?
[21:30] When the war starts, what was Jackson’s role in the army?
[26:30] How did the weapon technology change during this time period?
[29:20] How did Jackson get to The first Bull Run?
[34:40] Jackson became a mini celebrity after the First Battle of Bull Run.
[35:25] What’s the difference between First Bull Run vs. First Manassas?
[39:25] Jackson’s men marched 700 miles in 28 days and fought 5 major engagements.
[43:35] How did Jackson achieve such maneuvers so quickly and so brightly?
[52:00] After Jackson’s Valley Campaign, Robert E. Lee and Jackson form a strong bond.
[1:01:25] What was The Seven Days battle about?
[1:04:55] Gwynne asks Tim about the Marine Corps rulebook. Jackson had the flu and was falling asleep with food in his mouth. He could not effectively lead his men in that state. Would he be court marshaled in today’s time?
[1:09:35] After The Seven Days battle, Lee and Jackson are finally on the same page and head right into the jaws of the dragon.
[1:14:00] Jackson was famous for being able to move the army quickly and effectively.
[1:16:25] Jackson did tell his men to pack extremely light.
[1:19:25] How did armies gather intelligence back then?
[1:25:30] Jackson would use his own scouts to trick the enemy’s scouts and to throw off the trail of where his army was.
[1:26:05] Gwynee sets the scene for The Battle of Chancellorsville.
[1:37:45] Jackson liked to do his own reconnaissance, and, as you can imagine, his army hated that idea.
[1:42:00] What was the public’s reaction to Jackson’s death?
[1:49:00] What would have been the impact of the war if Jackson did not die?
[1:54:15] Jackson was a very religious man.
[1:59:00] There was nothing to suggest that Jackson was against the liberation of slaves, but at the same time Jackson owned 6 slaves himself.
[2:05:50] Gwynne discusses his upcoming book.
Mentioned in This Episode:
Rebel Yell: The Violence, Passion, and Redemption of Stonewall Jackson by S. C. Gwynne
Patrick K. O’Donnell is a combat historian, bestselling author, and public speaker. O’Donnell has written ten critically acclaimed books that recount epic, and untold, stories of American war. His most recent book, Washington’s Immortals, recounts the story of the forgotten Maryland Heroes who helped push the war onto America’s winning side and defeat the British.
Key Takeaways:
[4:00] Much like the rest of O’Donnell’s books, this one found him.
[6:35] Green-Wood Cemetery is a fascinating place because it held an epic battle during the Revolution where we could have lost to the British.
[9:10] These Marylanders bought the United States precious time during the war.
[11:45] O’Donnell became obsessed with uncovering the Marylanders’ story.
[14:00] Although it’s hard to confirm these numbers, but up to a 3rd (if not more) of Americans sided with the British.
[18:10] Hollywood makes fun of it, but the British army was a very strong and professional force.
[19:15] British soldiers were constantly adapting to American tactics.
[29:40] By the end of 1776, Washington and his army were in trouble because fewer men wanted to re-enlist. What did Washington do to get more men to join the army?
[39:05] The Battle of the Assunpink Creek is one of O’Donnell’s favorite untold stories.
[44:50] Washington’s leadership was what was holding everyone together, and improving morale.
[49:05] Why did Washington need the support of the French army?
[55:00] What kind of role did Thomas Paine play before the Battle of Trenton?
[58:35] Although the British had a large army, they struggled to keep control and population protection when broken up into smaller parts.
[1:07:10] During the Battle of Stony Point, American troops captured well over 600 British soldiers. In many ways, this battle was a textbook operation.
[1:15:15] O’Donnell talks about ‘Over the Mountain’ men and why the British were afraid of them.
[1:20:10] Keep in mind, there were not enough farms to feed both the American and British armies fighting in the South.
[1:21:40] General Nathanael Greene was in charge of the Washington’s Immortals to take over the South. He split his army up and called a section of them ‘The Flying Army.’
[1:31:00] Charles Cornwallis made the mistake of pursuing Greene’s army.
[1:33:30] Greene’s strategy was to basically burn the british out.
[1:39:45] Tim does a quick recap about the tactics and strategies Greene used.
[1:50:50] Where was Washington during all of this?
[2:00:00] Recognize the past is the best guide to the present and the future. Lives depend on this!
[2:01:35] Look forward to Pat’s next book about World War l.
Mentioned in This Episode:
Joby Warrick is an American Journalist who has won two Pulitzer Prizes. His work at The Washington Post covers topics on the Middle East, diplomacy, and national security. On today’s discussion, Warrick discusses his book, Black Flags: The Rise of ISIS, in greater detail, and gives some history on how ISIS began.
Key Takeaways:
[2:55] Even though we’re not under attack, the American people are still affected by ISIS.
[6:10] Who is Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, really?
[9:25] Warrick discusses Zarqawi and his relationship with his mother.
[13:45] How did prison make Zarqawi more radical?
[16:10] Prison helped form a brotherhood, a university, for a lot of these men.
[21:25] Zarqawi and his associates were disowned by Al-Qaeda because they were almost too brutal.
[22:20] ISIS and Al-Qaeda do not like each other. Al-Qaeda views them as ‘crazy heretics.’
[27:55] How was Zarqawi connected to Saddam's regime?
[32:30] The U.S. decided to wait until after after the Iraq invasion to go after Zarqawi.
[40:05] Zarqawi created a new and more brutal form of terrorism.
[47:55] Zarqawi died by the hands of American soldiers. We finally got him!
[48:20] The third part of Warrick’s book focuses on ISIS.
[48:45] If Zarqawi was neutralized, how did ISIS rise up in Syria?
[56:35] Who is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and what was his role in all of this?
[1:01:10] When ISIS takes credit for terrorist attacks/acts of violence, is it really them or are they just capitalizing on an opportunity?
[1:02:50] What is happening in Iraq right now?
[1:09:25] Warrick revisits the Sykes-Picot Agreement, and how it still applies today.
[1:12:50] Where does Jordan stand in all of this?
Mentioned in This Episode:
Gideon Rose is the editor of Foreign Affairs, and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. He is also the author of the book How Wars End: Why We Always Fight the Last Battle. In this week’s episode, Mr. Rose discusses why, no matter the war, we see the same mistakes occur throughout U.S. history. The truth be told, the end state in war is often too broad. The lack of planning by civilian decision-makers based on these broad and vague terms, leads to a longer-than-necessary war that could have very well been prevented, and had lives spared. However, war is inherently political, and leaving just the violence to military officials, and politics to politicians, is not the realistic balance and conclusion we all crave.
Key Takeaways:
[1:55] Who is Carl Van Clausewitzian and why is he relevant to how wars end?
[3:30] What is war? Clausewitzian defined it in two different ways.
[6:25] The end state, in this case, goes beyond the physical battlefield, and it stretches into the political realm.
[6:35] Should military planners be more aware about the political ends of war, or is this a task for policy makers?
[14:10] It falls down on the military in the end. For example, the Iraq War and the mission to overthrow Saddam Hussein were well-planned on the lower levels, but incredibly poorly-planned at the higher levels.
[15:35] Retired military officials were the ones to speak up about the invasion of Iraq. They wanted to know what the end state was.
[17:10] If war is both political and military, then it’s not possible to separate the two completely, especially in times of construction.
[18:35] Military operations have their own grammar, but not their own logic.
[21:55] According to Mr. Rose’s research, civilians take their wartime responsibilities far less seriously than military officials.
[27:00] Saddam Hussein had to torture and dismember those who opposed him, even within his chain of command, and this made everyone too afraid to speak up to him. But in the U.S.? All it took was to be publicly shamed in front of a hearing, in order for military officials to not speak up to their head of command.
[30:20] It’s a hard balance to maintain. If people acted on their own accord based on what they thought was right at the time, the entire government and military system would fall apart. However, we’ve seen through World War II history that, “I was just following orders” does not hold much weight, especially when it was towards something truly evil and unethical.
[34:30] Why was General Myers, Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, absent from key decisions that were outlined in the book? What role was he playing at the time?
[42:50] Iraq was the perfect storm, but truth be told, the U.S. Government and military have made similar mistakes in every single war that we’ve fought.
[50:00] Mr. Rose understand there are difficult challenges, but why are the same mistakes happening, war after war, after war? It boils down to civilian decision-makers not doing enough serious planning towards the situation.
[50:35] It angers Mr. Rose that his civilian counterparts who helped plan some of these wars, simply just didn’t do their jobs.
[51:25] It’s imperative to take what you’re doing really, really seriously. Lives were lost and, wars were fought, that didn’t need to be, due to these mistakes.
[53:00] What examples do we have of history where policy members, civilians, and military members have worked well together?
[1:03:05] Let’s analyze how the George H.W. Bush administration handled the Gulf War. What was done right? What was done wrong?
[1:20:25] The first year of the Korean war was very dramatic and terrible, but what people don’t realize is that all those horrible things stopped after the first year. It took two extra years for negotiation, but why did it take so long when policy was already in place, years prior?
[1:27:15] When people specify what their war aims are, they often do it in a very broad way, with vague terms. This leaves room for bad planning.
[1:27:55] The common saying is, “Measure twice, cut once.” So, you’d think with a subject as important as war, people would be measuring much more than twice. The reality is, people rarely measure at all.
[1:30:45] How do you tell whether something was a good idea or not? It’s actually a very hard thing to do in retrospect.
[1:50:45] Once you’ve made terrible mistakes upon entering a country on war pretenses, it’s very hard to correct them, after the fact.
[1:50:50] The Nixon administration gets a ton of blame for how the Vietnam war was handled, but the fact is Nixon was cleaning up a mess he entered into.
[1:52:20] Mr. Rose believes Nixon handled the Vietnam war much more strategically than most would. It wasn’t a success, but Nixon could not have closed it out any better.
[1:59:10] How would Mr. Rose do things differently?
[2:00:50] Start with the endgame, and reverse-engineer the endgame that they want.
[2:03:00] It begins with professional responsibility.
Mentioned in This Episode:
How Wars End: Why We Always Fight the Last Battle, by Gideon Rose
How Everything Became War and the Military Became Everything, by Rosa Brooks
Supreme Command: Soldiers, Statesmen, and Leadership in Wartime, by Eliot Cohen
Once an Eagle by Anton Myrer
Fredrik Logevall
