Two Sides of the Spectrum
A place where we explore research, amplify autistic voices, and change the way we think about autism in life and in occupational therapy practice.
Zosia Zaks is a certified rehabilitation counselor, author, and autistic self-advocate. He manages the Towson University's Hussman Center for Adults with Autism, where he teaches service-learning courses that examine autism through a social justice lens. Listen to episode 21 where we explore:
- How diversity education can truly shift the paradigm to make disability inclusion more effective and empowering for everyone
- Why attitudinal accommodations are the key to positive inclusion for autistic people
- The concrete ways OTs can support autistic people at work
- What true self-advocacy looks like and why and how to start it young
- How everyone benefits from accommodations and advocacy strategies used by disabled people
SHOW NOTES:
View links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
Take the Learn Play Thrive Quiz
Zosia Zaks is the Program Manager of the Hussman Center for Adults with Autism
Check out Zosia’s book: Life and Love: Positive Strategies for Autistic Adults
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook: Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
Jacklyn Googins is the cofounder of the OTs for Neurodiversity social media movement and the founder of B3 Coffee, an inclusive pop-up coffee stand in Chapel Hill, NC. Greg Boheler, who is autistic, is the cofounder of OTs for Neurodiversity and a board member for B3 Coffee.
Join us in Episode 21 where we:
- Explore the practical changes that OTs for Neurodiversity strives to make in the field of occupational therapy, and how these can completely transform the work we do
- Dive into concrete examples of the content that Jacklyn and Greg create, including how we can shift our thinking on both echolalia and sensory processing differences towards a more strengths-based, person-centered approach
- Look deeply at the B3 Coffee model and learn how inclusivity and neurodiversity can truly benefit everyone
SHOW NOTES:
View links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
Take the 2-minute Learn Play Thrive Quiz
Follow OTs for Neurodiversity on Instagram and Facebook
Follow Jacklyn on Instagram
Follow Greg on Instagram and Facebook
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook: Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
(view links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast)
Read about the latest research on the Double Empathy Problem Research
Learn more about the Participatory Autism Research Collective
Grab your spot in the 2-hour CEU training, A Strengths-Based Approach to Autism & Behavior
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook at Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
Jacquelyn Fede is a developmental psychologist and autistic self-advocate and Amy Laurent is a developmental psychologist and pediatric occupational therapist. They are the co-founders of Autism Level Up, where they push people who support and care for autistic people to take our work to the next level. This talk is an edited replay of their interview for the Neurodiversity in the New Year summit. Listen in to the episode to transform your idea of what it means to do play interventions with kids on the spectrum. We’ll dive deep into:
- How play interventions may be robbing autistic kids of the chance for true, restorative, freely chosen play
- How we can reframe developmental interventions that use toys or playful activities, but are not truly play for our clients
- What it means to truly watch, learn from, and listen to our clients as they joyfully engage in true play
SHOW NOTES:
View links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
Visit the Autism Level Up website for tons of free resources
Follow Autism Level Up on Facebook
Check out Autism Level Up’s visual, Can You Have “Play Goals” for Another Person?
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook: Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
Sarah McCulloch is an autistic occupational therapist based in London, the senior OT in a school for autistic kids, and the founder of The Autistic Empire. Listen in to episode 17 as we explore:
- The question we should all be asking ourselves before we start any intervention
- Why the best approaches to therapy require the perspective of both autistic and non-autistic therapists
- The important shift Sarah recommends we all make in our work around sensory aversions
- How The Autistic Empire is promoting self-actualization for autistic people (and how we all can too!)
SHOW NOTES:
View links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
Watch the free masterclass: Autism-Specific Strategies that Transform OT Practice
Check out The Autistic Empire
Follow the Autistic Empire on Facebook and Instagram
Learn more about ALERT Cards and purchase them here
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook: Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
Dr. Winnie Dunn is a distinguished professor of occupational therapy at the University of Missouri, the author of the Sensory Profile, and a trailblazer in occupational therapy research and practice. Dr. Dunn’s latest research focuses on parent coaching and occupations in everyday life. Listen in to episode 16 as we explore:
- How to understand sensory processing differences using a strengths-based lens
- How and why to support our clients in their everyday lives - even if we work in contrived settings
- Dr. Winnie Dunn’s surprising advice on how to use the Sensory Profile that may make your work so much easier
- Dr. Dunn’s advice to OTs that brought us both to tears
SHOW NOTES:
View links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
Register for the FREE Neurodiversity in the New Year Summit http://learnplaythrive.com/summit
Find Dr. Dunn online:
Distinguished Professor at the University of Missouri
Read Dr. Dunn’s Latest Publications:
Living Sensationally understanding your senses.
Strengths-based approaches: What if even the ‘bad’ things are good things?
Sensory processing in the general population: adaptability, resiliency and challenging behavior.
Sensory processing in autism, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and typical development.
Classifying sensory profiles of children in the general population.
The relationship between sensory processing patterns and behavioral patterns in children.
Sensory Subtypes in preschool aged children with autism spectrum disorder.
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook – Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
Sarah Selvaggi Hernandez is an occupational therapist and educator working to promote an intentional identity-first approach to autism and OT. Listen in to the episode as we dive deep into:
- Why we should be focused on the development of positive identity for our autistic clients, and what might be getting in our way
- Concrete strategies we can use to help our clients flourish, inspired by the occupational science philosophy of doing, being, belonging, and becoming
- Sarah’s powerful message to parents of newly diagnosed autistic children
SHOW NOTES:
View links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
Register for the FREE Neurodiversity in the New Year Summit
Find Sarah on Facebook at The Autistic OT
Read about disability identity development
Learn more about the development of self-concept
Check out Sarah's writing and disability advocacy work at Neuroclastic
Dr. Matt Braun is a speech language pathologist who owns a private practice in the Kansas City area. His doctoral thesis examined whether OTs and SLPs write our goals and evaluations from a strengths or deficits-based perspective. This episode is the third in a three-part series. First check out episodes 4 and 12, then join Dr. Braun in this episode we:
- Explore what real, strengths-based, in-context intervention looks likes
- Answer all of your listener questions about IEPs, reducing paperwork time, working with parents, and more!
Show Notes
(view links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast)
- Join the free 5-day OT & Autism Values Challenge
- Visit Matt’s website, Speech & Language Solutions LLC
- Check out Matt’s perspective-shifting book recommendations:
- Life Animated by Ron Suskind
- The Journal of Best Practices by David Finch
- Unstrange Minds by Roy Richard Grinker
- Uniquely Human by Barry Prizant
- Be Different by John Elder Robison
- Neurotribes by Steve Silberman
- Born on a Blue Day by Daniel Tammet
- The Autistic Brain by Temple Grandin
Keep your eyes out for Matt’s new podcast, From Every Side of the Table
Check out an example evaluation from Matt
Reach out to Matt: matt@kcspeech.com
Check out Matt’s manuscript, A Pilot Study on Professional Documentation: Do We Write From a Strengths Perspective? If you can’t get full access, email Matt at matt@kcspeech.com and he’s happy to share it
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook–Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
Elizabeth is an autistic adult and licensed occupational therapist who specializes in trauma-sensitive practices. Elizabeth is a lifelong learner with an innovative OT practice informed by so many areas of study. Listen in to this episode as we explore:
- Why trauma-sensitive practices are essential for our work with autistic people
- What Trauma Centered Trauma Sensitive yoga is, and how Elizabeth uses it her work
- Concrete, easy-to-apply trauma sensitive practices we can all start implementing right away
- How mutual aid and autistic community can (and should!) play into our work with families
- Elizabeth’s simple but profound takeaway for OTs (hint: it’s not that we should be doing more in our sessions)
SHOW NOTES:
(view links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast)
- Check out Elizabeth’s business, Heart of Gold OT
- Learn more about Trauma Sensitive Trauma Centered Yoga
- Join the Free 5 Day OT & Autism Email Challenge
- Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook - Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
Dr. Evan Dean, PhD, OTR/L, is Assistant Research Professor at the University of Kansas and Associate Director at the Kansas University Center on Developmental Disabilities. His research focuses on promoting community participation for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities through enhancing self-determination, supported decision making and career design.
Dr. Scott Tomchek, PhD, OTR/L, FAOTA is Professor of Pediatrics and Assistant Director of the Weisskopf Child Evaluation Center at the University of Louisville. He co-authored the AOTA practice guidelines on autism. Strengths-based, family-centered care is central to all programs he touches. Listen into this episode as we dive deep into:
- The question you’ve all been emailing me to ask: How do we write strengths based evaluations and goals!?
- And then the other question on the mind of U.S.-based providers: How do we get insurance to pay when writing strengths-based evaluations?
- And most importantly: Why is a strengths-based evaluation process so important, and how does impact everything that follows?
This episode is detailed and specific; we talk about everything from early intervention to early adulthood. Including those handwriting goals you may have been writing for your middle-schoolers. Warning: this episode is likely to inspire you to do something totally different in your very next evaluation. Are you ready??
SHOW NOTES:
(view links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast)
Dr. Scott Tomcheck’s article (co-written with Dr. Winnie Dunn and Dr. Matt Braun) A Pilot Study on Professional Documentation: Do We Write From a Strengths Perspective?
Dr. Evan Dean’s Self-Determined Career Design Model
Kansas University Center on Developmental Disabilities
Dr. Scott Tomchek’s Kentucky's State Systemic Improvement Plan for Early Intervention
Free masterclass from Learn Play Thrive: Autism-Specific Strategies that Transform OT Practice
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook - Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
Sound Editor Chrstian Parry’s Website
Emily Lees is an autistic speech and language therapist and an advocate for pro-neurodiversity approaches. Listen to the interview with Emily as we explore:
- The unique challenges and strengths that being autistic presents to girls, and Emily’s own journey of being misdiagnosed in her adolescence
- Emily’s experience with job interviews and work, and the types of supports we should consider for other autistic adolescents and adults in the job interview process
- How Emily teaches self-advocacy to her students, and her unexpected response when a student says “Leave me alone”
- The ways that Emily’s autism can be a strength for her as a speech language pathologist and as a role model for girls
SHOW NOTES:
(view links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast)
Check out Emily’s visuals on Twitter
Therapist Neurodiversity Collective
Free masterclass from Learn Play Thrive: Autism-Specific Strategies that Transform OT Practice
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook - Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
Jen Schonger is the Program Manager at the New Jersey Autism Center of Excellence and the mom to two daughters, one of whom is autistic. She is so insightful and is an incredible advocate for parents and for autistic children. Listen to this episode as we:
- Explore the surprising blindspots many OTs have when working with parents
- Learn about the concrete things that helped Jen develop a positive, empowering understanding of autism, and how we can help other parents to do the same
- Discover the shifts that therapists can make to transform the parent experience starting from the very first session and continuing through their work together
- Get Jen's savvy advice about working with parents who want something different than the neurodiversity approach
- Dive into Jen’s suggestions for school-based OTs about the most important thing they can be doing to support autistic students
SHOW NOTES:
(view links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast)
Check out the New Jersey Autism Center of Excellence
Grab a copy of Ido in Autismland, the book that inspired Jen early on.
A Strengths-Based Approach to Autism and Behavior Live Training
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook - Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
TRANSCRIPT COMING SOON
Ido Kedar is an autistic-self advocate and the author of a two books. He is a non-speaking autistic person who uses a voice-output typing device to communicate. Listen to my interview with Ido as we discuss:
- His experience with OT, speech, and ABA before he had a way to communicate when no one was presuming his competence
- How learning to communicate changed everything, and why learning to spell and type isn’t a simple as it sounds
- Why Ido doesn’t like labels like “high functioning” and “low functioning”
- What sensory and executive functioning supports Ido found helpful in his journey, and what outdated strategies he wishes therapists would leave behind
- Ido’s advice to therapists who write goals to suppress stimming
- Ido’s concrete challenge to our listeners who want to better understand the perspective of our non-speaking clients
SHOW NOTES:
(view links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast)
Follow Ido on Facebook
Ido in Autismland Website
Ido’s Novels
Free masterclass from Learn Play Thrive: Autism-Specific Strategies that Transform OT Practice
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook - Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
SHOW NOTES:
(view links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast)
Follow Deirdre on Facebook
We Instead of Me Website
Elizabeth B. Torres’ The Micro-movements Perspective Research
Mindful Parenting Decreases Aggression in Children with Autism by Nirbhay N Singh
Free masterclass from Learn Play Thrive: Autism-Specific Strategies that Transform OT Practice
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook - Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
Jacquelyn Fede is a developmental psychologist and autistic self-advocate and Amy Laurent is a developmental psychologist and pediatric occupational therapist. They are the co-founders of Autism Level Up! where they challenge OTs to listen to autistic voices and level up our work with people on the spectrum. Join in the conversation as we:
- Explore why the emotional model of regulation may not connect with many autistic people
- Dive deep into how to support autistic clients using three the Autism Level Up tools: the Energy Regulator, the Person in Context, and the Power Plan
- Breakthrough the myth that “calm” is the right energy state for every context, and get clear on what we can aim for instead
- Move towards a context-driven and empowering model of intervention for self-regulation
SHOW NOTES:
(view links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast)
Follow Autism- Level UP! on Facebook
Check out the Autism- Level UP! Website
Download the Three Tools Mentioned:
Register for the Free Five Day OT & Autism Challenge
Free masterclass from Learn Play Thrive: Autism-Specific Strategies that Transform OT Practice
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook - Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
Joy F. Johnson is a black, autistic behavioral therapist who runs Spectrum Support Services. She brings a new perspective to the podcast in so many ways. Join into the conversation as we discuss:
- How joy uses her behavioral training to help keep black autistic kids safe when interacting with the police, and what strategies we all should be using to do the same
- Joy’s take on behavioral strategies that we've been critiquing on this podcast like planned ignoring, using reinforcers, and using hand-over-hand assistance from her perspective person who is trained in ABA and also black and autistic
- Joy's experiences with racism and ableism in the United States
- Why Joy loves watching credits, the surprising doors her interests have opened for her in adulthood, and several important reasons why we shouldn’t withhold an autistic person’s interests from them
SHOW NOTES
(view links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast)
Find Joy at Spectrum Support Services
Follow Joy on Instagram and Facebook
Check out Joy's book, Happy, Flappy, and Me
Join in the free 5 day OT & Autism Values Challenge
Join in the conversation at Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources For Professionals
Greg is a pediatric occupational therapist who presents workshops nationally on topics related to sensory processing, challenging behaviors, and improving school-based therapy services. Greg is a huge advocate for best practice in OT. Join us as we discuss:
- Why OTs already have the skills we need to work effectively and respectfully with our autistic clients, but often don't use them
- How behavioral approaches such as planned ignoring and token boards can be harmful to our autistic clients
- What empowering strategies we should all be using instead
SHOW NOTES:
(view links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast)
Follow Greg on Facebook
Check out Dr. Ross Green’s Collaborative & Proactive Solutions approach and a number of his books here and here.
Books by Dr. Dan Siegel
Dr Bruce Perry’s book, The Boy Who Was Raised By a Dog
Beyond Behaviors by Mona Delahooke
The Hidden Cost of Planned Ignoring by Mona Delahooke
Rethinking Planned Ignoring for Kids on the Spectrum from Learn Play Thrive
Free masterclass from Learn Play Thrive: Autism-Specific Strategies that Transform OT Practice
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook - Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
Kristie Patten is the chair of the Department of Occupational Therapy at New York University whose cutting-edge work focuses on using strength-based approaches in autism. Join us in this episode as we delve into:
- How we wound up using a deficits-based model with autistic kids and why this is not serving our clients well
- Why we should move away from withholding interests, and how first-then schedules and even limiting screen time may fall into this framework
- How we can support autistic clients to build from their strengths to support their joy and participation in life, leisure, and work
- What we should be doing instead of social skills groups
- Why it's really easy to be a bad therapist and really hard to be a good one (plus some concrete steps to take to help get us there!)
SHOW NOTES:
(view links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast)
Find Kristie Patten at https://steinhardt.nyu.edu/people/kristie-patten
Learn more about Kristie’s work and the programs she’s involved in:
Occupational Therapy Practice Guidelines for Individuals With Autism Spectrum Disorder
NYU Steinhardt's ASD Nest Program
IDEAS: Inventing, Designing, and Engineering on the Autism Spectrum
Check out the film Life Animated, based on the story of Owen Suskind
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook at Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
Lydia X. Z. Brown is an autistic attorney and disability justice advocate who specifically focuses on violence against multiply-marginalized disabled people. In this episode, join us as we:
- Dive deep into how white supremacy and white privilege play out for autistic kids
- Learn how systematic racism and trauma impact the diagnosis and treatment of autistic kids, including the unexamined racism of many OTs
- Explore the role that police and prisons play in the schools and lives of autistic black, brown, indigenous, Asian, and POC kids
- Discuss concrete steps OTs can take to become anti-racist in their work
SHOW NOTES:
(view links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast)
Find Lydia X. Z. Brown at autistichoya.net, lydiaxzbrown.com, or on Twitter or Facebook
Check out the book they co-edited, All the Weight of Our Dreams: On Living Racialized Autism
Autistic Women & Nonbinary Network
HEARD-Helping Educate to Advance the Rights of Deaf Communities
Learn more about the race and class disparities in autism diagnoses here Race, Class Contribute to Disparities in Autism Diagnoses
Learn more about the disproportionate diagnoses of black children with oppositional defiant disorder here The Process and Implications of Diagnosing Oppositional Defiant Disorder in African American Males
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook at Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
Resources recommended by Lydia on abolishing police and prisons:
Visit learnplaythrive.com for your free ebook, 5 Essential Autism Strategies for OT
Damian Milton is an autistic researcher whose idea spawned a huge shift in how we think about autism. In this episode, listen in as we explore:
- How Damian developed his hypothesis that the trouble with empathy and social skills is a two-way street between autistic and non-autistic people, not a deficit of autistic people
- What early research Damian did to confirm this hypothesis
- One thing Damian would love to see OTs stop doing with social stories and comic strip interventions with autistic clients
- A tip for how to better approach sensory processing challenges with autistic kids, with a cautionary tale from his own life
SHOW NOTES:
(view links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast)
Read about the latest research on the Double Empathy Problem Research
Learn more about the Participatory Autism Research Collective
Watch the Learn Play Thrive Free Masterclass: Autism Strategies that Transform OT Practice
Join in the conversation about this episode on Facebook at Learn Play & Thrive: Autism Resources for Professionals
Welcome to episode 1! In this episode Sarah and I dive deep into how our OT practices can better reflect our respect for autistic voices and our autistic clients. Join us while we:
- Revisit how the podcast idea was born and named
- Explore the most pressing reasons not to use hand-over-hand assistance with autistic kids (I'll also talk about why we say "autistic" not "kids with autism")
- Discuss autonomy, sex, race, the foster system, and so much more
- Explore the most pressing changes needed by OTs working with autistic people, and what concrete steps we can take to get there
SHOW NOTES:
(view links at learnplaythrive.com/podcast)
Find Sarah at The Autistic OT
Check out her book, Melt Like Ice Cream
Keep your eyes out for more from Sarah on Neuroclastic
Read my article on Why I Don't Use Hand Over Hand
And if you want to know more about why we say "autistic," check out 3 Phrases That Stigmatize Autistic People
To go super deep into autism intervention strategies for OT, here is my free masterclass, Autism-Specific Strategies that Transform OT Practice
